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With the startup of Season 3 a few scant days away there has been the expected influx of new members and the inevitable repetition of thoughts and posts. Whenever I post that I prefer the new characters of Hannah and Shaw to be good people, shock is the result.
Instead of having to recycle my reasons for posting them in the forum repeatedly, an article to cover them off once, made writing this an easy choice.
Before I delve into the Potential Love Interests, or PLIs, let me summarize my position on the Chuck and Sarah relationship. This is a necessity because everything ends circling back to it at some point or another.
Usually sooner rather than later.
I expect Chuck and Sarah to end up together. I love the Chuck and Sarah moments. The chemistry between the two characters is electric. When Chuck and Sarah have their own personal intersect moment, I will be at the front of the line cheering just as loud, if not louder, than the rest of the crowd.
However, and this is where I dare tread where only the foolish and brave do, the current state of the relationship is fine by me. If you chart the relationship over a seasonal arc the progress is clear. Where things stand at the end of Season Two are vastly far ahead of Season One. Plot that ahead for Season Three and the end game is in sight.
Now as to my stance as to why I prefer Hannah and Shaw to be good guys, time to clarify.
In the spy genre, the plant and the double spy are well worn tropes. People not appearing to be what they initially seem to be. We saw this last season with Jill who turned out to be a Ring agent, dabbled with it in regards to Bryce, and had the big reveal when Stephen Bartowski turned out to be Orion. So the show has already gone down these paths a few times already. Time for something new in the third season.
The Jill one has the most bearing on why I hope Shaw and Hannah are what they seem because it has to do with Chuck and Sarah. During the Jill arc the tension was there as to whether or not Chuck really would end up choosing Jill over Sarah. As soon as Jill was revealed to be a Ring agent that dramatic balloon was burst.
It was also the easy way out.
Lost was the drama of Chuck choosing between Jill and Sarah. The moment Jill was revealed to be a Ring Agent, Chuck’s decision was made for him.
Not by him.
That is big.
Imagine a storyline where Jill was the Jill from Stanford. Then the story would have been about Chuck examining his relationships with Jill and Sarah and having to chose. Far more powerful is the story where the protoganist is put in the situation where they have to make the decision. Harder to write. But so much more emotionally engrossing to watch. Such approaches take longer to play out which is why, with 4 episodes for Hannah and 8 episodes for Shaw, I am very hopeful this is exactly what is going to happen.
So to have Chuck and Sarah make their own decision about who they want to be with needs Hannah and Shaw to be good guys. That does not mean they cannot have emotional baggage or skeletons or ulterior motives. But those motives should be ones that Chuck, Sarah, and us, the audience, can empathize with. Even better yet, actively support, to the point of wanting to help Hannah and Shaw.
Shaw and Hannah could be good people doing bad things because they are being blackmailed or out for revenge or a number of other motives that would not undermine empathy towards them. Keep that in place for both of them and then the decisions rest squarely on the shoulders of Chuck and Sarah. Make the decision difficult for both of them. If we like Hannah and Shaw then the tension during the time taken for Chuck and Sarah’s decision will be cranked up. The release that much more intense.
When Chuck and Sarah do come together we want to see that happen in the most dramatic, romantic, and emotionally satisfying way possible. A storyline where Chuck and Sarah make the same mutual decision is the ticket to seeing that happen.
If it does happen that way, then we circle back to the top about my statement in regards to being one of the loudest fans when that moment happens. There will be no doubt about it. I WILL be the one leading the cheer.
Making Shaw and Hannah the bad guys is the lazy way out to bringing Chuck and Sarah together. Chuck, Sarah, and we fans should be given the harder way.
The honest way.
The most satisfying way possible.
I totally agree with Lou. If we don’t have the will they won’t they tension then there wouldn’t be a show. Sure removing the intersect from Chuck’s head is important but in the Chucktv.net survey most people said they watched because of the Chuck and Sarah relationship. Bringing the two characters together in 3rd season would be boring and we would eventually lose interest. Not because the show is boring but because it is one of the main plot lines.
While I agree with Lou (yes, far more satisfying, but, sometimes, it physically hurts to see them look at someone else), I’ll have to disagree with you, Alisha.
Yes, I was one of those people that said that they watched the show because of Chuck and Sarah, but that certainly does not mean that I’ll stop watching it as soon as they’re together.
Zach Levi often compares Chuck and Sarah to Ross and Rachel (Friends) to justify the will-they-won’t-they, but I don’t see it. While Friends was about the lives of 6 buddies, where the most exciting thing was when one lost his/her job, Chuck is fighting against a terrifying terrorist group called The Ring who wants to takeover America!
How can the show lose interest just because the guy got the girl? IMHO, seeing Chuck and Sarah sneaking around, trying not to get caught, sharing those sweet moments, wanting far more but those 5 minutes behind the counter of the OO having to suffice sounds like so much fun!
And then, everytime Chuck or Sarah has to seduce a mark, we will still see them jelous and awkward. It won’t change much, me thinks, but, at the same time, they KNOW, 100% sure, that they have each other. And since the relationship won’t be perfect – too many trusting ishues from both parts – we will still have drama and angst; just a different kind. A better kind.
For me, it’s a win-win situation.
PS – Sorry about any mistakes
I like the Friends comparison because this is EXACTLY what I’m afraid of. Ross acted COMPLETELY OUT OF CHARACTER when he slept with that waitress. When Rachel saw the home movie of prom night, and she kissed him, I was elated, and it was one of the best scenes of the whole show. After that, they turned Ross into a controlling, jealous, crazy person which was incredibly painful to watch (Especially doing it to a really nice character for comedic purposes). I figured they would work it all out, and things would be better, but NOOOOO.
I immediately lost all interest and care for Ross and Rachel. I hated what their characters had become, and would have stopped watching if it wasn’t for Chandler. I still really liked Chandler. THEN, Rachel had Ross’s baby out of wedlock from a one night stand and that was it for me. The show was over for me. Chandler and Monica were great together, but the whole Ross and Rachel thing was ludicrous. It wasn’t fun anymore what they did to those characters.
Be careful saying “most” said they watched because of the Chuck/Sarah relationship – while that option did get more votes than any other, it was not the majority of fans (under 50%). A seemingly small differentiation, but in reality quite important.
Thanks for the comments folks. I really appreciate them – hope this is not going to into a WTWT discussion though.
Looking for feedback on the PLIs and why they should be good guys.
I agree with you completely that “good” PLIs are better than”bad” plis. The more fundamental question is, when do you say “no PLIs”? At this point, Chuck and Sarah know each other well enough to know if they are willing / able to make some kind of commitment to each other, and to figure out what that might look like. Basic relationship advice – if you haven’t figured out after a year if someone is “the one”, they are not. Move on, get a life. The relationship will only be boring if the writers lack talent and creativity (and I don’t believe that is the case). There can be lots of drama and tension, but it doesn’t need to be of the PLI variety.
There is a fundamental difference between “epic” “dramatic” and “soap operatic”. With this season’s version of PLIs, I am feeling like they are moving to the latter. That would be regretable. The end (hopefully) is in sight.
I’ll drink to that!
I will have a drink as well.
Just a nitpick, Jill wasn’t part of the Ring, she was Fulcrum.
And the reveal of Jill being Fulcrum was shocking, and quite well done, I honestly don’t care what affiliation Shaw or Hannah have, as long as it is done the right way. And Josh and Chris haven’t let us down yet… Would I perfer the scenario you wrote to be the one they go with? If you list it word for word, yes, with you calling the other scenario well worn tropes. And if its going to be done in that stale fashion, then yes, I want them both to be good. But if its well done, entertaining, and moves the story forward, I have no problem with one or both of them being bad.
Well put, Lou. Like usual, we’re pretty much in agreement. In the final analysis, it’s not if Chuck and Sarah get together – it’s when. The quality of the show will be determined by the creative heights achieved by the creative talent during that journey, just like it’s been for two seasons now.
Siciliano makes a good point. I always think of Melrose Place as the penultimate night-time soap opera. It’s outstanding characteristic was that every relationship was temporary, and all were scrambled in the end. It would be the equivalent of Sarah ending up with Jeff in about 4 more seasons (after going through Emmett and Lester and probably Big Mike in the process) and Chuck ending up with a 2nd round draft choice to be named later.
You know that’s not going to happen. You know that “soap-opera” isn’t the right term to use for Chuck no matter how Hannah and Shaw develop as characters.
Thanks for sharing Lou nicely stated and good points provided. I agree shouts will be louder when award more appreciated
Chuckster54
@Siciliano:”At this point, Chuck and Sarah know each other well enough to know if they are willing / able to make some kind of commitment to each other, and to figure out what that might look like. Basic relationship advice – if you haven’t figured out after a year if someone is “the oneâ€, they are not.”
I understand what you’re saying, but I think this particular case with Chuck and Sarah is a little different. It just isn’t as easy for them because of who they are and their line of work. Let’s face it, Chuck has a computer in his head and the weight of the world resting on his shoulders now. It seems He wants to do something worthwhile with his life, and he seems to think that being a real spy is what he need to be. He probably also wants to show Sarah that he can be a great spy without losing himself in that world. Without losing his ‘chuckness’. That’s tough and very serious stuff, in my opinion. I don’t think he is quite ready to commit to Sarah. Yeah, love is not always enough. Plus, according to spoilers, she doesn’t seem to understand his new choice. She is fearful of him losing his essense in the field, maybe? She is not confident in him being able to handle it all. It seems to me like these two still need some growing up to do before commitments of marriage. They’re almost there but not quite.
Hopefully, by the end of this season they’ll be on the same page. I think it’d be about time, and they certainly deserve it. But it won’t be easy. It won’t be all rainbows and puppies. And I like that. The bigger the dream, the harder it gets. And I’m very confident that the writers have done a good job in this aspect, as they usually do. No, Chuck is not a soap. Never has been.
Lou, as usual, I agree with you. Great and insightful post. I know lots of harcore fans wish Shaw and Hannah were bad guys, but that’s too predictable and lazy for me, especially at this stage in the story. Hopefully, the writers understood this. It’d be great if by the end of the season C&S could begin a real relationship. I think it’s the right thing to do, and I think the characters deserve it. And it seems to me like most fans would love that, right? 😉
To clarify, I was not suggesting they need to get engaged or married any time soon. I am suggesting that in moderately healthy relationships (CIA or not), you need to move in a direction. So far, they seem to be doing that. Some people may be fine with them doing the PLI dance for several seasons. That wouldn’t be, IMO, particularly entertaining. Given where they are at, I’ll stick with them this season. Of course, if intersect 3.0 becomes the issue next season……
The article makes good sense to me and I hope it eventually turns out that way. Better for them to decide as individuals what they truly want from each
other rather than have events or cirumstances decide for them. I also agree it
would be far more interesting to watch as drama if as individuals that they
decide what they want or don’t want for themselves uninhibited by other people
or events and that’s the way it should be. Our fates are usually determined by
our choices, not by cirumstances beyond our control, although it doesn’t always work out that way. Nothing to do except watch, wait, and see……
Well what is done is done. I am not too interested in arguing about it seems is already done.
When I voiced my concerns back in November we were told hay its fine you do not know what is going to happen.
Well i sat back, see if anything would come out that would change my mind. Been playing Modern Warfare 2 for the last 2 months.
I would have liked to see them as a couple, or even having to hide that they were a couple and fighting the bad guys. Sadly we will not get that it appears not until episode 13 if then.
From what i see the fan base will be “tortured” this season, because chuck says I will not run away with you she runs into the arms of another man and chuck into the arms of another woman. Or Sarah mistakes a kiss between C & H and runs into Shaw’s arms.
Well that’s not a good reflection on her but hay its going to happen. I was always taught that people do not cheat or go for revenge on a loved one. The excuse of “we were on ice” is pretty lacking in moral fibre. My aunt who is a longer fan than me said she did not want her kids seeing that kind of thing it gives the wrong message.
Well I saw an interview which said Josh recognised Monday was a tough slot against house etc. Well you all seem to have forgotten two things.
1.
Now I belong to a generation that thinks differently we do not sit in front of the TV waiting for a show, we use on demand, Itunes etc. Simply we do not sit and watch TV not unless we are bored or as it used to be with Chuck a family viewing night. But in some ways I am grateful I do not have to go over to visit the folks and I get more time to play some of the great games coming out in the next few months.
2.
February and March are massive months for the Gaming World and Gamers everywhere Command & Conquer 4 is out mid March; Mass Effect 2 is out soon, Bioshock 2 is out early February. That is not to mention Army of Two is out mid Jan. Just bought Bayonetta and its great. That is just a tip of the games coming out Max Payne 3 is out end of February. Thing is gamers pick up a game and whatever the cost we have to finish that game. Mass Effect 2 is going to take over my life LOL
So I have tried to find a reason to watch and cannot, I do not want angst in my life nor be emotionally tortured, as was mentioned in a recent interview. I get enough of that in my own life.
So I will do as I did last season, check spoilers if it sounds like it looks like the Love Interests have gone and chuck is not a complete Bryce mark 2 or wet blanket then I may check it out. But I can easily pick it up later got plenty of things to keep me entertained for the next couple of months.
Thing is if Sarah does run into Shaw’s arms cause chuck turned her down or apparently cheated on her I can see only 1 way it can end. Any self respecting guy. Even a geek, would just say “you know lets just be friends†which I really honestly think that’s what will happen and who really wants to see that. I loved Chuck cause hay we can dream the geek can get the girl .. oh well life is not like that.
Good luck I hope it turns out for you all.
Wow! Thanks for the reply. In the time it probably took you to write this you could have saved it and watched the Sunday night premiere.
That would be cool. Watch and then decide.
Hope you free up some time and try that approach.
So far of the other love interests there has been Lou, who was good; Bryce, who seemed evil but turned out to be good; Jill, who started evil but ended out no-so-much; Cole, who was thought to be a bad guy but turned out to be a good guy. So far, of the others, only Jill was really a bad guy, and she was that way not out of conviction but circumstances. What you seem to be advocating is more of the same, which is the complaint of many who don’t want any more of these arcs. As to payoff from these many arcs, it has been slight, this is my main complaint, the do the same thing over and over yet don’t change their behavior. Sarah chose Chuck after Cole and the last bit of Bryce, but she never acts on that choice. Chuck doesn’t act at all after Lou or Jill. Maybe they will act after the three(my guess) episode angst of Hannah and Shaw, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Like I’ve said before, everybody can see that Chuck and Sarah love each other accept of course, Chuck and Sarah. Even last night, Casey reminds Sarah of the very fact. She’s hurt because he didn’t run away with her, not fully understanding why. Not trusting that it had nothing to do with her or Chuck’s feelings. Chuck’s made the same mistake. They live and operate in a bizarre, complex world, where it becomes difficult to diseminate what is real and what is not.
I’ve agreed with Ken since season two ended and intimated this in the off season. Sarah has already made that choice, although, yes one can argue that she hadn’t acted until last night. Twice she chose Chuck over Bryce and Cole.
Chuck only went back to Sarah when Lou told him, “Next time your hungry take it the Wienerliscious.” And then, of course, Jill “made it easy,” by attempting to kill Sarah.
I agree that the love interest should be good guys, simply because it would be boring to see them turn out to be bad guys. That however doesn’t mean that i like love interest’s. I really don’t like the idea that as soon as things turn out bad for chuck and sarah’s relationship they each run into other people’s arms, to me that makes it look like chuck and sarah’s relationship is completely hollo and has no substance to it. If me and my girlfreind hooked up with other people as soon as we had a fight, all my buddies would be giving me sh@#$ about it and trying to convince me to leave her, but we never do that because that would be disrespectful to each other, hence why should chuck and sarah disrespect each other.
For me if the episodes which have the love interests as a major sub-plot become to tortures i will have to change the channel and return to chuck once i know the love-interests are over. Which i think really sucks for me because i would be missing all the other great aspects of the show, but for me the chuck and sarah relationship always comes first
My sentiments exactly.
Well said, Chuck Fan
Lou, You make a very compelling argument that it is much better drama for Chuck and Sarah to choose each other freely rather than have the choice made for them by the PLI’s betrayal. You know we disagree on a few aspects of the show, but I wouldn’t disagree with the argument as stated. This time I disagree with the premise. My response is here.
Well said OD.
Tonight will be so sweet. Less than 11 hours to go before I get to watch a new episode of Chuck.
I have to agree with you that having Hannah and Shaw being good guys would be a much more satisfying payoff. Although I hate to bring it up because of the beefcake thing, it does support your premise. When Sarah chose Chuck over Cole in Lethal Weapon it was much more satisfying than if Cole turned out to be a bad guy. We knew that there was physical attraction between Cole and Sarah, and that Cole was a good-guy superspy, that Sarah admired him, but yet Sarah chose Chuck because love is so much more than those things.
I have a feeling that Shaw will be similar in that respect to Cole. Even though he is around for 8 episodes, I don’t see Sarah being with him for 8 episodes. I’m thinking one or two and then she will realize that in spite of all the heartache that her and Chuck have been through, it is Chuck that she still wants.
As for the Hanna/Chuck scenario, I’m not sure what is going to happen there, but from the spoilers I have read, my gut feeling is that Hannah will have witnessed/knows something that has caused her to go into hiding at the Buy More. Maybe that guy that Chuck fights with on the plane is after Hannah. There could be very little romance involved in this scenario, but we will just have to wait and find out.
All I know is S3 is going to be amazing (thought I would use a different A word).
my family loves this show, Chuck. I love this show too, and I think this is the best show ever. I get all hiped up when i just talk about the show, and Chuck and Sare NEED to finaly be to gether!! It makes me mad because there just “friends” but i guess that what makes it exsiting!! and I can spell!!