Author Topic: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye  (Read 40206 times)

Offline Nicksap

  • Asset
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2012, 11:05:25 PM »
I agree with what you said, Mel. She initiated the kiss, and kissed him back. She clearly loves him.

I'm sorry you feel that way, it's your opinion, and I respect that. But she did say that she loves Chuck. Where I agree with you is that it would've been better if it has been less ambiguous.
She kissed him, it means she loves him, that a stretch, Sarah never had a problem kissing dudes, sorry to disappoint you. I agree with you it was very ambiguous which is the problem.

Offline jmf4

  • Asset
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • N7
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #61 on: January 27, 2012, 11:07:00 PM »
The hardest scene for me was in Castle when she told Chuck that she just didn't "feel" it anymore.  And honestly I don't believe we saw or heard her say in the end that she did get those feelings back.
Agreed. I get the idea of the "soulmates" notion that most of the finale's supporters seem to be citing; the problem though is, a lot of us don't necessarily buy into the idea of soulmates and I'm not sure Chuck as a show has ever supported such an idea. Chuck and Sarah fell in love, but it wasn't easy or just happened. Think of all of the fighting and work they had to do in order to finally get together. Chuck as a show seemed to support an ethic of "fight for what you believe in" as opposed to a "if something's meant to happen, it will happen." This doesn't mean that Chuck and Sarah won't fall in love again, but it'd be very hard/impossible to replicate the same situations and circumstances that led to Chuck and Sarah falling in love, again. Plus, Sarah really doesn't seem to want to pursue a romantic relationship with Chuck. Yes, she kissed him, but I really don't think that kiss invalidated her character's state as presented in the finale.  So yes, if you believe in soulmates/think that Chuck has advocated or presented such an idea then the ending will seem happy to you. If you don't however, the notion of Chuck and Sarah merely ending up as (good) friends really doesn't seem too far-fetched. If TPTB really wanted for us to have that sort of hope and optimism that some are citing, you'd think they've put more of it into the 2 hours they had for the finale. There's a difference between being subtle and being lazy.
Don't be hasty

Offline mr_harrison75

  • Agent With A Gun
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2012, 11:11:30 PM »
The review from IGN:

The very last scene of the series was incredibly poignant and touching. The fact that Sarah was on that same beach where she found a suitably shaken Chuck at the end of the pilot, the way he told her their story (and thus the story of the series), and seeing her laughing and crying reactions to it all… If you love these two characters, how could you not feel a bit weepy watching it?
 
I really admired that we didn't get that "I remember everything! " moment from Sarah, instead ending on a more subtle note with a kiss that could or could not be "magic." I think it's very clear that Sarah has rediscovered her love of Chuck and will be with him, but it would be sad to imagine her still not really remembering the past five years, including her relationships with all the other characters – and I'll tell you, my wife sure wanted that moment where it all came back to her to be explicit! But personally, I feel like we saw enough signs of things coming back that weren't only about Chuck -- including Weinerlicious and the one and only Irene Demova (awesome callback to the pilot!) -- to conclude that slowly but surely, she would remember everything.
 
The end of the show left us with the knowledge that somewhere out there, Chuck, Sarah, Casey, Morgan and everyone else could have more adventures together one day. After all, Chuck has the Intersect back, and Beckman once more let them all know she'd be happy to have them work for her again.
 
In the meantime, Chuck Bartowski once again proved he was far and away the perfect match for Sarah Walker and Zachary Levi and Yvonne Strahovski proved for the 91st time how beautifully they play off one another. Yes, Chuck, Sarah and the viewers went through some tough and trying times to get to a happy ending, but the message was simple at the end of this wonderful TV series: Chuck and Sarah are together and everything will be okay. In other words.  Don't freak out.

Offline Nicksap

  • Asset
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #63 on: January 27, 2012, 11:11:37 PM »
Agreed. I get the idea of the "soulmates" notion that most of the finale's supporters seem to be citing; the problem though is, a lot of us don't necessarily buy into the idea of soulmates and I'm not sure Chuck as a show has ever supported such an idea. Chuck and Sarah fell in love, but it wasn't easy or just happened. Think of all of the fighting and work they had to do in order to finally get together. Chuck as a show seemed to support an ethic of "fight for what you believe in" as opposed to a "if something's meant to happen, it will happen." This doesn't mean that Chuck and Sarah won't fall in love again, but it'd be very hard/impossible to replicate the same situations and circumstances that led to Chuck and Sarah falling in love, again. Plus, Sarah really doesn't seem to want to pursue a romantic relationship with Chuck. Yes, she kissed him, but I really don't think that kiss invalidated her character's state as presented in the finale.  So yes, if you believe in soulmates/think that Chuck has advocated or presented such an idea then the ending will seem happy to you. If you don't however, the notion of Chuck and Sarah merely ending up as (good) friends really doesn't seem too far-fetched. If TPTB really wanted for us to have that sort of hope and optimism that some are citing, you'd think they've put more of it into the 2 hours they had for the finale. There's a difference between being subtle and being lazy.
Wow excellent post, couldn't have said it better myself.

Offline AgentMel

  • Envies Lester's Parcheesi prowess
  • Administrator
  • Agent With A Gun
  • *****
  • Posts: 3822
    • ChuckTV.net
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #64 on: January 27, 2012, 11:12:48 PM »
We obviously didn't see the same show though.

It's been obvious to me for years that the Chuck I've been watching is much more hopeful and optimistic than the Chuck some others have been watching. And I have the hate mail to prove it. :)

Offline mr_harrison75

  • Agent With A Gun
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2012, 11:14:31 PM »
Quote
She kissed him, it means she loves him, that a stretch

It would've been a stretch if she hasn't kissed Chuck.  ;)

If she would've really not wanted to get "reacquainted" with Chuck, she would not have asked him to kiss her, period.

But I can see that you disagree with me, and that we won't change our respective minds on the topic, so lets end it here, okay?  :)

Offline AgentMel

  • Envies Lester's Parcheesi prowess
  • Administrator
  • Agent With A Gun
  • *****
  • Posts: 3822
    • ChuckTV.net
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #66 on: January 27, 2012, 11:15:20 PM »
Agreed. I get the idea of the "soulmates" notion that most of the finale's supporters seem to be citing; the problem though is, a lot of us don't necessarily buy into the idea of soulmates and I'm not sure Chuck as a show has ever supported such an idea.

Yep, we've definitely been watching different shows. The showrunners, Zac, and Yvonne have all said repeatedly that Chuck and Sarah are soulmates. That's the foundation of their relationship.

Offline jsteed

  • Full Agent
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #67 on: January 27, 2012, 11:29:08 PM »
Yep, we've definitely been watching different shows. The showrunners, Zac, and Yvonne have all said repeatedly that Chuck and Sarah are soulmates. That's the foundation of their relationship.
I completely agree. When I read Mo Ryan's, Sepinwall's, and IGN's review, which all of them liked the ending, I really seem to agree completely with them. I thought it was an excellent finale and I know I'm in the minority.

Offline Nicksap

  • Asset
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #68 on: January 27, 2012, 11:42:18 PM »
The characters would not have gone through so many trials and tribulations if they were supposed soulmates. Just because that was what Zack and Yvonne said does not mean its true, if it is, it should have have been better betrayed in the five years they were together, on and off btw. No, I believe it was there shared experiences and character development where the bond was formed, which by the way is now lost. They are starting from square one and nothing was shown that anything would develop beyond friendship, nor do I think anything was even implied that it would.

Offline albrink

  • Junior Agent
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
  • morning coffee
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #69 on: January 27, 2012, 11:42:31 PM »
What makes great literature great, and it applies to good screenwriting as well, is how it deals with timeless themes.  Concepts such as altruism, good triumphing over evil, sacrifice, devotion, loyalty, forgiveness.  This finale covered all those and more. 

That Chuck would download the intersect, with Sarah's consent even though it ended the hope of a quick fix for her lost memory, so he could save the concert hall full of people and General Beckman; that Chuck would wait on Sarah to receive his love rather than rush her or berate her or force her to love him again; that Casey would make his decisions out of devotion to Sarah, Chuck, Morgan, General Beckman and Alex.  That Ellie would risk her life to help Chuck save Sarah by crashing the mini-van.  On and on.  The story was rich with these themes.

We got a tender, quiet love scene on the beach, with very real tears from Yvonne. No we didn't get a final steamy bedroom love scene and everything back to normal...but now we have something to daydream about, to imagine. 

I for one like that and plan to dream away. 

Thanks, Fedak for the lovely finale.

Offline albrink

  • Junior Agent
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
  • morning coffee
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #70 on: January 27, 2012, 11:48:34 PM »
I was also delighted to get the back story tid bit that Roark, Bartowski and Winterbottom were teamed up to create the intersect originally.

So the final analysis is that intersect had two inherent problems - it could distort the personality and memory as in Winterbottom-Volkoff and Grimes and/or it could cause physical neurological deterioration as with Chuck and Sarah.


Offline AgentMel

  • Envies Lester's Parcheesi prowess
  • Administrator
  • Agent With A Gun
  • *****
  • Posts: 3822
    • ChuckTV.net
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #71 on: January 27, 2012, 11:55:36 PM »
The characters would not have gone through so many trials and tribulations if they were supposed soulmates. Just because that was what Zack and Yvonne said does not mean its true, if it is, it should have have been better betrayed in the five years they were together, on and off btw. No, I believe it was there shared experiences and character development where the bond was formed, which by the way is now lost. They are starting from square one and nothing was shown that anything would develop beyond friendship, nor do I think anything was even implied that it would.

And I believe to the complete opposite, not just because Zac, Yvonne, and the writers said so, but because I saw it in 91 episodes.

Offline jmc

  • Agent-in-Training
  • **
  • Posts: 72
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2012, 12:07:02 AM »
After watching the finale again.  I'm still disappointed.

The whole thing was just so underwhelming and the homages felt forced. After 5 years the show deserved a much better finale, and Chuck and Sarah deserved a happier ending.

Yes, Schwedak's doing interviews saying Sarah's memories will return to her, and I believe it too, but I wanted them to really show it to us, instead of telling.




Offline jmf4

  • Asset
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • N7
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #73 on: January 28, 2012, 12:08:47 AM »
Yep, we've definitely been watching different shows. The showrunners, Zac, and Yvonne have all said repeatedly that Chuck and Sarah are soulmates. That's the foundation of their relationship.
Well, I'm glad that we've all come to at least some sort of understanding in regards to the pessimistic vs optimistic interpretations of the finale's final scene. Even if I still can't force myself to view the final scene through a "soul-mate" lens, I'm glad to have a better understanding of how others can validly arrive at a happy conclusion. Thanks Mel and the others for helping to clear up this issue.
Don't be hasty

Offline szollo09

  • Agent-in-Training
  • **
  • Posts: 61
Re: Season 5 Episodes 12 & 13: Chuck Vs Sarah and Chuck Vs The Goodbye
« Reply #74 on: January 28, 2012, 12:16:19 AM »
I try to be not sound some crazy person or whatever.
But what they killed is the LOVE. Sarah's love for Chuck. And these place, it meant to us, but for Sarah it not mean anything Its like never hapened,
I can't express my self , unbelievable. they to Chuck and Sarah, the Heart of the show as they said, and literally Killed. I know its sound crazy, but this is it.

But dam 5.12 so good, really, Tha massage, and again the You really love me, this is realy, I must did the job very well. Genius, evil heartbroken, but Sarah not feel it, wich is good and kidn of believable , but as the story goes She not feel it, no mater what, never again. and than she like tel me are story, and kiss me.

OMG this is    . crap. It can't be defended theres is nothing to save it.