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Comments on: MidSeason Melodrama – Episode 3.07: Chuck Vs The Mask – Part II https://chucktv.net/2010/02/10/midseason-melodrama-episode-3-07-chuck-vs-the-mask-part-ii/ The CHUCK archive Tue, 02 Mar 2010 00:23:26 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.5.2 By: xXChuckXx https://chucktv.net/2010/02/10/midseason-melodrama-episode-3-07-chuck-vs-the-mask-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-10683 Tue, 02 Mar 2010 00:23:26 +0000 http://chucktv.net/?p=4280#comment-10683 In reply to The Marlin.

I like your attitude but “The Nacho Sampler” was crucial to the development of Chuck as a spy (along with drawing connections between Chuck and Sarah). That episode in essence was Chuck parting from his old life to enter the spy life. Chuck is becoming a real spy and losing some of his old qualities (except for his disbelief in guns). One crucial difference between Minoosh (or however it is spelled) and Chuck is their attitude towards women. Chuck respects women whereas Minoosh is looking to score. That is my 2 cents on the matter.

In 3.07 “The Mask” I did not think that anything was particularly rushed. It was believable that Chuck and Hannah hit it off due to moments in the plane. Shaw and Sarah is a bit more complicated. As she is about to die, she apologizes to Shaw for overreacting to his flirtatious advances. He then proceeds to carry her out of castle to get her the antidote. Sarah does actually have a “type.” It is a hero that she ultimately finds herself with. Cole in season 2, Bryce in seasons 1 and 2, and now Shaw in season 3. Shaw is different and you can tell. Part of the writers objective is to plant a seed of mistrust in Shaw (I think Sarah does not trust Shaw either). For his being gone an episode, I think that will play a major role in the next few episodes. Hannah is gone after tonight’s episode. Otherwise, I think Sarah is smart and will not trust Shaw. Shaw has said that he made a big mistake falling in love with another spy. He was very close to discovering Chuck and Sarah’s relationship while they are on the mission and while he talks to Sarah about going off grid in Prague. I believe he intends to exploit Sarah and Chuck’s relationship for his own agenda. I don’t know what that may be but Sarah may be trying to figure out more about him through their relationship. The looks on her face don’t reveal that she is “in” to Shaw. That is just my opinion. The article above was well written and I very much agree with the numbered list.

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By: Matthew https://chucktv.net/2010/02/10/midseason-melodrama-episode-3-07-chuck-vs-the-mask-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-10659 Mon, 01 Mar 2010 02:39:54 +0000 http://chucktv.net/?p=4280#comment-10659 In reply to Dallin.

Remember people they are setting us up for Chuck and Sarah to get togther by the end of this season. Watch clips from this season and Chuck comes to Shaw’s door and Shaw tells Chuck you had your chance with Sarah and Chuck hits him. I believe that JS is setting the table for Shaw to be a bad guy and Chuck having to rescue Sarah. Remember that was one eposide, or one layer of the onion. Conflict is a part of this show. People are rooting for Chuck and Sarah to get togther, and I believe it’s time, but this is the last obstacle in their way. Next season I believe that they will be toghter full time. One eposide this season is going to be about an older spy couple giving Chuck and Sarah a glimps into their future.

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By: Dallin https://chucktv.net/2010/02/10/midseason-melodrama-episode-3-07-chuck-vs-the-mask-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-10532 Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:50:11 +0000 http://chucktv.net/?p=4280#comment-10532 In reply to The Marlin.

I agree with some of the things that have been said, but while watching “the Mask” i never really felt that the characters walked out of character, they just did things that I didn’t like. Sarah’s decisions with Shaw make sense even if I don’t like them…REALLY don’t like them, but oh well.
I really enjoy watching Chuck grow up as a spy, it sounds terrible, but I enjoy watching him make difficult decisions, shoot the Nacho man, lie to Ellie(though I think its going to be very awesome when she finds out). Point is, I enjoy watching Chuck grow up. Eventually I hope he learns how to shoot a gun

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By: The Marlin https://chucktv.net/2010/02/10/midseason-melodrama-episode-3-07-chuck-vs-the-mask-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-10440 Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:38:03 +0000 http://chucktv.net/?p=4280#comment-10440 The last two episodes of Chuck have not been my favorite, with “The Nacho Sampler” maybe being the worst episode of Chuck, ever. With that being said, I still beleive Chuck is the best show on television because it is the most complete show on t.v. right now. No other show manages to do comedy, drama, action and romance with the quality that Chuck does. Even though I hate Shaw and his lame relationship with Sarah, I really beleive the writers are setting us up for something good. Out of 2 1/2 seasons there is not one episode that I can say i wouldn’t watch again. I can’t say that about any other show…….. ever.

So let’s show some faith and support for the writers and actors who have worked hard to give us not only a great show but, possibly the best show ever.

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By: Babi https://chucktv.net/2010/02/10/midseason-melodrama-episode-3-07-chuck-vs-the-mask-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-10383 Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:46:13 +0000 http://chucktv.net/?p=4280#comment-10383 I have also found the last few minutes of the episode rushed and uneasy (even cringe-inducing in a way, as they felt ‘wrong’ in the way they had been written). And although I have read the authors’ explanation on Ask Ausiello, my previous experience with the show is that when such rushed writing is deployed, what’s wrong is not the writing but the character’s actions. My thoughts here is that Shaw and Hannah are both faking… and possibly Sarah is also, probably because she’s not trusting Shaw. Hence the ‘wrongness’ one feels when watching them act.

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By: Atlee https://chucktv.net/2010/02/10/midseason-melodrama-episode-3-07-chuck-vs-the-mask-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-10309 Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:39:45 +0000 http://chucktv.net/?p=4280#comment-10309 In reply to Halley Smith.

It’s my understanding that Moonlighting failed, not because the two leads were brought together as a couple, but because the show had already run its course, and that Bruce Willis really wanted off the show. He was just going through the motions at that point.

Yet, according to urban myth, it failed because the leads were finally joined as a couple. I suspect even if they had not been joined as a couple, Moonlighting was going to be flushed.

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By: Atlee https://chucktv.net/2010/02/10/midseason-melodrama-episode-3-07-chuck-vs-the-mask-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-10308 Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:36:20 +0000 http://chucktv.net/?p=4280#comment-10308 In reply to Tyler.

I tend to agree with what you wrote. It seems like JS/CF are writing teen angst.

I said last summer that even if Chuck and Sarah were together as a couple, the writers could still do some fantastic episodes. As you said the spy stuff, action, comedic elements, BuyMore would still be available. Also, even as a couple, things aren’t always smooth sailing. If they were a couple there would be their adjusting to life as a couple that could have been explored both dramaticly, romantically, and in comedy.

And with all that there would still be the relationships with family, and co-workers to development.

I just do not believe Sarah and Chuck being a couple would have been the death nell for the show. If the writers are as good as I think they are, they could have written lots of great episodes with them as a couple.

I also agree about fans having any obligation to watch the show in order to insure a 4th season. I watch shows that are entertaining to me. When a show stops being entertaining to me, I stop watching. Its up to JS/CF and the writers and actors to deliver a show that is entertaining enough for me to watch.

I’m still watching this year, but it certainly, so far at least, not nearly as entertaining as it was in Season 1 and Season 2.

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By: Tyler https://chucktv.net/2010/02/10/midseason-melodrama-episode-3-07-chuck-vs-the-mask-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-10278 Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:23:04 +0000 http://chucktv.net/?p=4280#comment-10278 I agree with most of these comments. I’m constantly debating whether to comment here or on NBC’s discussion boards, but I’m staying here for now because the discussion on NBC’s boards is so long and so many pages it’s overwhelming.

For Halley Smith, I agree with you when you say that the fan’s can’t change the show midseason. That is exactly why the fans did everything they could to warn F&S not to do more LI stuff during the hiatus between seasons. Once they film the episodes, it’s too late.

Speaking of rushing the LI setup, I almost couldn’t believe how ridiculous the setup was for Sarah and Shaw. Not only did they do things out of character, but worse, they did something that flat out didn’t make sense: Shaw and Sarah getting together in the first place, but the reason why this shouldn’t have happened is not the obvious one. I am a shipper, but what made me mad was I remembered the scene from the end of the First Class episode. You know, the one where Shaw showed Sarah his deceased wife’s ring and said “we both made the same mistake. We fell in love with spies.” And here they are getting together?? Did I miss something? There was also the thing about Sarah getting in Chuck’s way as he tries to become a spy. The writers failed to apply that concept to Sarah and Shaw even though it did apply. To Sean, I agree with what you say about since Chuck can’t hold is own as a spy yet, he can’t have a relationship with Sarah. That is true. The only problem I see with it is they haven’t presented any reasons why Sarah would get in his way. Therefore it doesn’t make sense. Yes, she does have an effect on the new Intersect, but if anything, it’s a positive effect when they’re together vs split up. This can all be traced back to the beginning of the season. I read an article in the paper that had Schwartz saying the key to these kinds of shows is how you update the characters. I think they updated everybody fine, with one exception: Sarah. Apparently I’m one of the only fans who felt this way, but I thought the traumatic event between Chuck and Sarah between the seasons was pretty ridiculous and stupid. Why? Sarah should never have asked Chuck to run away with her because the moment that Chuck re-intersected himself in the Ring Sarah should’ve known that asking him to run away with her was pointless. Instead they should’ve had her asking him why he re-intersected himself. I know they reconciled it, but it still was clearly done to keep them apart longer, which is the exact opposite of what the fans wanted to see. That was one updating failure. The other failure was not changing Sarah’s role as his handler to his partner or something else. I know the Intersect wasn’t working during the first 2 episodes, so she had to be his handler then. But once the Intersect starting working (episode 3 onward), they should have updated her role to match that change. But they didn’t, and that’s why her getting in his way didn’t make sense because apparently she was still his handler even though there was no longer any reason for her to be. Therefore it didn’t matter that Chuck wasn’t a full fledged spy yet and that Shaw was, so there was no reason for them to break up based on that. Wow, I just noticed something. That was cool. Before I typed the previous sentences, I had actually written something that contradicted what I had said earlier in this comment about how the same “I’ll get in your way” stuff wasn’t applied to Shaw and Sarah even though it did apply, which means I found the logical counter-example that proves the character inconsistencies. What I had written was: …it didn’t matter that Chuck wasn’t a full fledged spy yet and that Shaw was, and that’s why the “getting in your way” concept actually did apply… The contradiction is that based on that deduction, saying that the “concept did apply” at the end of it doesn’t make sense. Hence the counter-example. I took the liberty of changing the contradicting part to: …so there was no reason for them to break up based on that… since that is the conclusion that logically does make sense. That was a cool accident (I would never have been able to think logically that far ahead).

I also think that doing the angst in the MI6 arc with Cole last season was a huge mistake, possibly the biggest of all 3 seasons so far. Not only did the angst ruin the arc, which I think could have been awesome, but more importantly I’m pretty sure it caused the fans’ willingness to tolerate more angst to run out. That was a bad thing to have happen because it obviously wasn’t the right time for Chuck and Sarah to get together for good and have a normal life because of Chuck’s decision to re-intersect himself and become a spy in the Ring, which was the opposite of what Sarah thought he wanted which meant that they would have to be kept apart for longer and with that comes more angst. In other words, they killed off the fans’ willingness to tolerate more angst before it was time to end the angst. Hence the internet uproar after Comic Con and the current fan anger. Some people were saying the fans should calm down after the Mask, but I don’t blame the fans at all. It’s not like F&S weren’t warned about doing this. I had been predicting a situation like this ever since the casting calls for Shaw and Hannah went out. If you’re going to do angst, you need to know how to do it right (setting it up in a way that makes sense), how much is too much (it quickly gets old and tiring), and when it’s time to end it and move on to other things. It seems to me that F&S are apparently clueless on all 3 of those.

Another thing (I know this is a lot, only 1 or 2 things left) is I think the show would benefit a lot, (that’s right: benefit) from getting Chuck and Sarah together for good a few episodes from now. For one thing, it’s what the fans want, and since they saved the show, it would be advisable. Secondly, yes, the tension would be gone, but that’s where all of the shows other elements (spy stuff, action, comedy, etc.) would come in to the picture. They would easily fill the hole left by ending the tension. Plus you have other tension (Morgan, Jeff, Lester, and Hannah). Third, if they don’t do it soon, the ratings are going to suffer and the show will get canceled, and I know nobody wants that to happen. And that brings me to my next point. I’ve seen a lot of comments by fans begging people to keep watching so that the show doesn’t get canceled. Well, if you think about it, it’s not the fans’ responsibility to keep watching so that the show doesn’t get canceled. It’s F&S’s job to give us a show that we like to watch every week. It’s our job to watch if we like it, not watch if we don’t, etc. I know that is somewhat harsh, but it’s the truth as far as I can see.

Lastly, I would encourage people to watch 3.08 because it’s an Ali Adler episode (good news), and also because it’s Hannah’s last, which means things are going to change pretty quickly (although like many fans, I don’t mind Hannah, it’s Shaw that I don’t like). Two indications that F&S are not totally clueless about the show’s current situation. I’m also disappointed with the Olympics because so far I’ve seen tons of promos for NBC’s new shows that are starting after the Olympics, but not one Chuck promo. Also, if there are no spaces between some of my words it was because the space bar didn’t always work. Phew, sorry this was so long. I had a lot to say.

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By: Pat https://chucktv.net/2010/02/10/midseason-melodrama-episode-3-07-chuck-vs-the-mask-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-10266 Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:57:25 +0000 http://chucktv.net/?p=4280#comment-10266 In reply to Drew.

Hi Drew:

Thank you for your analysis. After reading your comments, I can see some validity to the changes in behaviour in Chuck and Sarah. They both are going through major changes and it makes sense that they might do things that might be out of character.

Obviously, Chuck going through the changes of being a spy would cause him to suppress normal aspects of his behaviour in the past. He naturally has to be more secretive and can’t be as open due to the nature of his new career. However, you can still see some aspects of his old behaviour where he still seeks a reltionship which likely explains his attraction to Hannah. He does kind of need a release from the pressures of the spy world.

Sarah, I admit, I have some trouble with her change, but since she is becoming more open and emotional I could see that possibly she might have been reacting to moving on to new things in her life. Also, I am sure she still feels the sting from Chuck rejecting her. It is possible that since Sarah had to suppress her emotions for so long that it might be difficult for her to reign her emotions. Where before she kept them internally now the opposite has happened where her emotions are truly open and she can’t quite control them. The example of how she reacted when Shaw gave her coffee would be a good example. Maybe that has something to do with being attracted to Shaw.

Anyway, of course, this is just speculation.

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By: Drew https://chucktv.net/2010/02/10/midseason-melodrama-episode-3-07-chuck-vs-the-mask-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-10214 Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:43:27 +0000 http://chucktv.net/?p=4280#comment-10214 I haven’t read through all the comments, so maybe this has been discussed. I know a lot of people have commented about the rushed nature of the last 10 minutes and some things that looked out of character. My reading of the end leads me to believe that part of it was rushed (the training wheels scene.)

However, where I at first thought there was some out of character movement, I have begun to rethink it. The most alarming, or noticeable potential out of character behavior comes from Sarah. Chuck, too, has been out of character the last couple of episodes. I think they both can be summed up with the idea that both characters are going through transitions and are bouncing between what they were, and what they can become, which happens to be the polar opposite. As they find their identity I think the general feeling of out of characterness will come down. At the moment I would say the OOC is the point.

Furthermore, upon rewatch of Sarah’s character in the Mask, I came away with a completely different view of her reaction to Shaw. I think most people are viewing Sarah’s reaction in relation to Shaw and Sarah, which is the obvious first reaction. However, Sarah’s reactions on the show have almost always been about Chuck. When she switches to acceptance of Shaw’s advances, I fully believe it is not about Shaw, but it is about change and movement out of the painful cycle of having Chuck lie to her and leave her. Can’t really blame her. Taking this into account the episode goes down much better, IMO.

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