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The relationship between Chuck and Sarah is complicated, shifting, and often maddening. It is by far the most discussed element of the show on this site, drawing some of the most passionate and eloquent comments as well as some of the must frustrated. For today’s guest article, we actually have articles from two Chuck fans, each arguing a different side of the Charah relationship. Take a look at the point-counterpoint below from Aardvark7734 and Wepdiggy. Where do you fall?
Assassin, Spy, Girlfriend
Why Chuck needs “Charah†to succeed
By Aardvark7734
My first exposure to Chuck came from a TV promo. When I first saw it, I was attracted because of three things: It was a light comedy, it seemed centered around a nerd who was (cough) not completely unlike myself and it promised entertainment in “fish out of water†situations where nerd and spy cultures clashed. So, on the day it debuted, I watched.
But something unexpected happened as I watched the pilot. In the restaurant scene during Chuck and Sarah’s “first date†I realized something special was happening between the two leads. That it was enjoyable watching them banter and flirt awkwardly. That they complemented one another.
By the end of the “beach†scene, I was hooked. Maybe the nerd could get the girl.
As episode after episode rolled out, it became increasingly obvious that the show runners agreed and were letting the romance unfold. And while there were occasional setbacks (Lou, Bryce, Lon Kirk) the season ended with a rooftop scene (‘Chuck vs. the Marlin’) that sent a clear signal they’d eventually find their way to each other. Right?
Then came season two.
With it, a veritable smorgasbord of angsty disruptions and derailments ensued. They broke up, the ex-girlfriend returned, Sarah committed an unconscionable act, James Bond showed up to make Chuck jealous, it went on and on. And just when it seemed as if the pair would finally step over the line into blissful intimacy (‘Chuck vs. the Colonel’) their situation was thrown into doubt in the finale.
So it wasn’t surprising that the fan base reacted with some annoyance and, towards the season’s end, with exasperation. Some of the disaffected voiced the idea that maybe this whole frustrating focus on the Charah ‘will they – won’t they’ question was a waste of time. That the show, full of spy action, comedic high jinks and ‘bromance ‘ would be just fine without it. I have just one thing to say to those people:
Are you out of your frakkin’ minds?
With all due respect to others’ opinions, it’s way too late for that. Chuck’s romantic pursuit of Sarah is now a crucial factor in the show and there’s no going back.
To understand why this romance is fundamental to the core of Chuck and why it must be Sarah, and not a more conventional girl, that eventually wins Chuck’s heart, you need to get beyond the classical appeals of their matchup (fantasy, chemistry, forbidden fruit) and understand who Chuck is and where he is going.
Many people believe that Chuck is the “everyman†in this story, the guy we can all relate to. But he’s actually much more than that. Chuck is an underachieving hero, knocked off the path of greatness by unfortunate events. When fate shows its hand, thrusting him and his loved ones into perilous circumstances, he is forced to become the hero he was meant to be.
Sarah is an intrinsic part of that journey, the scintillating gem in Chuck’s new reality – both fascinating and flawed. And while she initially seems incompatible and unavailable, we find out over time that she’s neither and, incidentally, his savior. How’s that?
In Sarah, Chuck has a woman who sees the man he could be, and pushes him towards that destiny. She’s supportive, compassionate, and shows disappointment only when he fails to have confidence in himself. Other women, even those in his spy life (Jill), want Chuck to embrace ‘normal’, which for Chuck means settling far short of his true potential.
And while Sarah is broken, emotionally stunted, a product of a dysfunctional childhood, it is through redeeming her, transforming her from a cold-hearted assassin to a woman who can love again, that Chuck grows out of his adolescence. In choosing her, he chooses his shiniest future, the one that he’d gotten used to believing he’d never have.
As Chuck says to Sarah in ‘Chuck vs. the Ring’, “Everyone keeps asking me what I’m going to do with my future. And the truth is, I don’t have a clue. All I know is that I want you to be in it…â€
His choice is made. The die is cast. Now it’s up to season three to deliver.
The Hero’s Journey
Why Chuck Doesn’t Need “Charah” to Succeed
by Wepdiggy
I feel I must say this to start: I am not against Chuck and Sarah as a couple. Okay, there it is, shippers, I’m not against you. Well, I’m not totally against you, though I feel that we watch a different show Monday nights on NBC.
The show I watch is about the predestined hero coming to terms with the path that lies before him and learning to balance that new life with the life he already had. It’s about family and friends. It’s ‘spy-fy’ fused with the everyday world.
Chuck is a coming-of-age-story. The kid, from humble beginnings, who finds that he was meant for so much more. He learns to be a hero and saves the world while not losing himself in the process. That’s the story of Chuck.
Notice that nowhere in that brief description did I say anything about the story of Chuck and Sarah which, while a good story, pales in comparison to other parts of the show. Relationships are a key component to Chuck, and I get that, but the singling out of that one particular couple and the ways in which it is done have proved to be, for me, more of a distraction than a benefit to the entertainment value of the show.
There is just too much to be explored within this universe for the creators of the show to continue to suckle at the dry teat that is ‘Charah’. It’s boring at this point, and it has the potential to become unbearable. Either put them together or let them stay separate, but don’t make me watch more indecision.
I, as a viewer, am not interested in seeing two adults pining away for one another like pimply faced teenagers. If I wanted that, I’d watch Gossip Girl. Instead, I watch Chuck in hopes of seeing the interaction of TeamB, fun missions with zany solutions, and Jeffster; but I’m constantly disappointed when I get Chuck and Sarah gazing longingly at one another when the other isn’t looking. In fact, I’m completely convinced that episode 3.07 will be called ‘Chuck vs. The Staring Contest’, and will be 43 minutes of Chuck and Sarah looking at one another. Before you dismiss it, think just how plausible that is.
‘But in Chuck, the nerd gets the girl.’ Okay, I get that premise, but why does ‘the girl’ have to be Sarah? I don’t think it’s vital to any franchise that the lead male ends up with the lead female. Luke didn’t get Leia, nor did Harry get Hermione. There is a precedent for this sort of thing with these heroes. And honestly, if ‘getting’ Sarah means that Chuck has to be either absolutely crushed, humiliated, or even emasculated at least three or four times a season, I’d just as soon he find someone else.
So far, we’ve seen Chuck prepare a romantic evening for him and Sarah only to have her scoff at him; he’s watched her make out with Bryce Larkin in his bedroom; he’s shown up with wine and a flower to be greeted at the door by Bryce; he’s watched Sarah suck face with Cole Barker in the Castle, not to mention the infantilization that happened during the entire Cole Barker situation; and he’s asked Sarah to leave her life to go away with him, only to have her decline and say that she was going back to work with Bryce. Will the humiliation for Chuck ever end? Not if this focus on Charah continues the same way.
Chuck is a hero, and he deserves better. Where’s Lou when you need her?
Aardvark7734 and Wepdiggy are Chuck fans on opposites sides of the Charah spectrum. Their debates about the impact of that relationship are both passionate and respectful, showing just what a complicated show Chuck really is.
yeah Lisa, very well done. Very insightful. You use good examples to back your premise.
And thank you bethany
It’s true, great topic! Thanks to everybody.
In my opinion, I hope in more excellent episodes without:
#1 – Chuck vs. Beautiful ( Charah vs. Ridge&Brooke, do you remember the soap opera???? No thanks). In Italy it runs again… 🙁
#2 – Chuck vs. The Big Brother (I don’t want to “spy” everyday in the couple’s routine).
It’s time to grow up other links out the couple… In the next series, something or somebody ales, a child for example, why not? Half intersect in the father’s mind and the other in the child. Strange but interesting. How many womans do this every day??? Understand husband&child is not a special mission for agent Sarah Walker? I think very difficult for her…. The same for Chuck, to be a father with responsibilities…
My wife said: Like me!
Thank you, honey! 😉
Almost everybody that watches the show wants for Charah to get together like Jim and Pam at the Office or Moonlighting, ect. Most fans understand that the show creators will be getting Charah closer together, just like Josh clearly said they would at Comic Con. Patience is a virtue and ten years from now it will seem irrelevant at what point Charah officially got together.
Everybody involved creatively with the show loves the idea of Charah, they have stated as much publically. That is the future direction of the show. As far as what Josh has actually said at Comic Con, they will reach a new level of relationship in season 3 and it will be really really good.
Josh has a very short leash on the writers of the show. Ali NEVER would have posted her marriage spoiler about the direction of the show without his permission and it was simply to calm the fans. For the vast majority of us, it worked because HUNDREDS of us get together on TWITTER every single Monday and communicate all the time and we all know that the whiners are nothing more than a handful of the same suspects, the more they post the less anybody pays attention. When I talk to dozens of people each monday over twitter and see new faces every single week, that is where the action is. That is were the excitement is and that is where the new fans to the show are coming from. Each week we get new fired up fans. Chuck Me Mondays are awesome!!!
Season 3 is going to be the best season yet according to Ali and since she is the biggest Charah fan of anyone, that is great news!
Everybody check out Twitter and Chuck Me Mondays if you haven’t because that is where you get to meet the kind of fans that make this show amazing.
Thank you Dave! Finally someone points out that Josh had indeed said that will reach a new level of realationship in S3 and that it will be really really good. To me that sounds like they are going to move forward, but its going to be a bumpy ride. Though aren’t all relationships like this, minus the annoying love triangles? Heck even Ali is says it going to be great and I believe her. I can’t wait till S3. 🙂 It going to be awesome!
I’m devoted to the show and am very hopeful, but am a little less optimistic. I hope that S3 will NOT be the last. I’m already going through painful withdrawl from the tought of not getting my “Chuck fix” on Monday nights STARTING THIS FALL!! 🙁
I’d be interested in getting comments regarding what transpired between Chuck and Sarah during the last 2 episodes of S2. After all they had been through, after all they had said to each other and felt for each other, it just seemed to me very odd what transpired. If you’ve seen me mention this before, sorry – but I wanted to get specific comments relating to this specific situation, not general comments about the overal relationship situation.
At the end of “Colonel,” Sarah and Chuck have that nice moment where he says it finally feels like it’s real and she responds that it is real – and then the hand holding moment. O.K. If I remmeber right, that’s the night of the rehearsal dinner.
Then the VERY NEXT MORNING (the day of the wedding) – in “The Ring” episode, Chuck talks to her, starts to spill his guts, and she tells him she’s leaving in the morning and it’s top secret. We go from “It’s real” to “BYE!” in less than 24 hours.
Now usually, there is something that comes up that reminds Sarah that getting together with Chuck would endanger him, etc., etc. But in this case we don’t have that – at least we don’t see it. At the point of the “wedding morning” conversation, Chuck hasn’t yet downloaded Intersect 2.0. He’s still “Intersect free.”
So what we have here is the ending of one episode where “It’s real,” and we pick up at/near the beginning of the next episode with “I’m leaving in the morning, it’s top secret!”
So…… WHAT GIVES???? There is such a terrible “disconnect” there. You go from one end of the spectrum to the other. Yes, I know in the end she decides to stay with Chuck – but someone PLEASE give me your opinion on what the heck happened “overnight” to go from “It’s real,” to “Goodbye.”
Having potential love interests/rivals for affection and having General Beckman intervene and basically put a roadblock in Sarah’s path to Chuck is one thing, but this just wasn’t the situation in this case (or was it and I just didn’t see it?)
This is what I fear (whether founded or unfounded) is going to continue into Season 3. We’ll have these abrupt “changes” in where they stand with each other. Remember, these were the LAST episodes of S2. It’s not like I’m going back to S1 or early S2 where you can explain this abrupt change in various ways.
I’m not trying to be “Mr. Negative.” I’m just puzzled by how – and WHY – this transpired, when it doesn’t seem like there’s an obvious reason for it. I understand obstacles, difficulties, etc., etc., and I don’t expect them to go away (I am, however, hoping that the obstacles/difficulties for S3 will be of a different variety than S1 and S2 – if you get my drift).
Is it poor writing? Is it Sarah “overnight” concluding that she can NEVER have a relationship with Chuck? It was all just a little too “strange” for me. Again, there was no “third party” appearing between rehearsal dinner night and wedding day or any kind of obvious thing that would cause the dramatic change in Sarah’s response. (Would be WONDERFUL to get the writer’s insight into this, but I doubt that’s going to happen).
So help me out, good people. What the heck was going on? And if S3 turns out to be THAT kind of herky-jerky ride, then I’m afraid I’m going to have the same kind of reaction that I have on roller coasters that turn me upside down – NAUSEA!! I’ll watch – be sure of that – but I’ll be wretching during the ride.
Thanks all for whatever insights/comments/feedback you can give. Keep on supporting the show all you Chuckaholics. AND PEACE!!
Your quite right Rick, That’s what I always claimed since I saw the “Ring”…
It was a crappy Finale, it didn’t make sense after the progress made in “Vs. The Colonel”, and it started up a whole new blunder. not to mention the fact that if the show hadn’t been renewed, it was to be the worst Finale episode of all times (tied closely with FarScape’s “Bad Timing”…before they decided on “PK Wars”), that is why I always considered The Colonel(sans the last minute) to be the perfect Season/Series Finale. every Charah progression was halted and every logical movement was halted…it had much more sense(sand the damned Kong-Fu segment)if it were shown in mid-season 2, but after the “Colonel” it was problematic, at best.
Alex
just to be clear I meant that “every Charah progression was ceased and every logical movement was halted…” was in “VS. The Ring” not in “Vs. The Colonel”.
Alex
Hello Father Rick:
I am kind of new to this site, but have read a few articles. I commend you for being positive and listening to both sides coming to a middle ground. That is the spirit I think we all have to take with this site.
In terms of your question below:
“At the end of “Colonel,†Sarah and Chuck have that nice moment where he says it finally feels like it’s real and she responds that it is real – and then the hand holding moment. O.K. If I remmeber right, that’s the night of the rehearsal dinner.”
“Then the VERY NEXT MORNING (the day of the wedding) – in “The Ring†episode, Chuck talks to her, starts to spill his guts, and she tells him she’s leaving in the morning and it’s top secret. We go from “It’s real†to “BYE!†in less than 24 hours.”
If I remember this correctly, Sarah and Casey met with General Beckman after the wedding dinner and early in the morning before the wedding. The General offered Sarah to lead the Intersect project. I think Sarah was conflicted between taking the position and staying with Chuck. That however appeared to be a MAJOR promotion for Sarah in terms of responsibility.
Sarah initially decided to take the job because it was a validation of the General’s belief in her. Also, Colonel Casey stated that Sarah was instrumental with getting the Interset cube and Chuck’s father back in the NSA’s possession. I think that affirmation from Casey made her feel that she was obligated to accept the position. However, if you look at her facial expressions during that communication it was a difficult decision.
If you remember when Chuck invited her to go on vacation, she explained to some extent her new respnsibilities and why she was leaving. She,to me, was conflicted because she knew what had happen between her and Chuck. She faced the age old challenge of Love vs. Duty and at that moment she chose duty. However, from her expressions, she did not make that decision lightly.
Later on during the wedding, when the reality of her leaving Chuck likely forever appeared, she was unable to do it. That was when Bryce stated, “you are not coming with me, are you?”. This issue was constantly challenging her and yes she did change her mind often, but I could see why she struggled making such an important decision.
Whatever final decision she made, she would lose something in the process. In choosing Chuck, she left a career that she served for many years. She was considered one of the top agents in the C.I.A. Likely she gave up a promotion that probably would have further her career as well. However, at that moment she felt Chuck was worth it.
Hello Father Rick:
I am not sure if I specify the time period clearly in my previous post, so I am going to try to detail the period where Sarah talked with the General. Again, this happened early in the morning before the wedding.
Sarah, Casey and Chuck were in the room communicating with the General. The General offered Chuck a position to be an Analyst. Chuck appreciated the offer, but declined the position.
The next sequence of events the General is reassigning Casey back with his original unit. I think Chuck left for the wedding, but Sarah is still in the room.
After Casey left, the General ask to speak with Sarah privately. Sarah was in the room with Bryce Larkin and that is when The General offered Sarah the promotion of leading the new Intersect project with Bryce being the new receipent of Intersect 2.0.
I think between the General’s offer and Casey affirmation that Sarah deserves recognition in the Colonel episode, made Sarah feel obligated to accept the new position. Sarah was conflicted, if you look at her face, about the position because she knew that she would likely never see Chuck again.
I am not sure in my previous response to you that I specified enough to know where the communication between Sarah and the General took place. I wanted to detailed it a little more.
It took place in the wedding morning, and after Chuck was offered the analyst position and refused that, Casey was ordered by the General to give him his service fee(sort of speak), it was then that Beckman asked Sarah for a private conversation, in which she told her(not offered, told) she was chosen to lead the new Intersect project, working together with Bryce Larkin, who then appeared out of nowhere. This has nothing to do with Casey’s words in the end of “Colonel”(the praises he gave to Sarah in front of Beckman) because THOSE were spoken as a diversion to let Sarah’s actions not to be considered treasonous(or to a smaller degree, betrayal), a thing also solidified by Chuck lying regarding of the way Sarah ‘treated’ him.
That’s why Sarah’s choice to accept the order is problematic in light of what transpired a mere day before that. (not to mention the fact that as head of NSA she can’t and won’t appoint a CIA field operative without any consulting with CIA authority, which we
haven’t witnessed since Graham died…another weird writing fluke).
Logically and realistically, if she had already decided to give up
her career and professional life for Chuck when they became fugitives(in the “Colonel”), withdrawing from that just for the sake of a new project(important as it is)and leave Chuck seems a little bit stupid and contrived, and reliable as per the plot so far. the fact she regretted her decision and chose to stay with Chuck(which he didn’t know) is at best, a problematic redemption.
Alex
Sorry for some of the mistakes, my bewitched keyboard is frustrating me to no end:
*Beckamn, of course can’t nominate a CIA officer to a ‘job’ without any cooperation with a CIA authority, and one has been lacking since
“First Date”.
*the choice to leave Chuck seems for that new project after all that happened in the Colonel seemed Contrived,silly and UNRELIABLE as per the plot so far.
sorry again for the writing mishaps, I hope that illustrated the paragraph better.
Alex
Rick Holy
I have to agree with Pat here. He just beat me to the punch.
Casey did in fact make up a story about Sarah pretending to go AWOL to draw out Fulcrum. As she sheepishly attempted to refute the Colonel’s claim, Chuck interruped and backed his story with his innate yarn in how Sarah cuffed and abused him.
Sarah comes walking through the court yard in a stunning blue dress that even caused Casey to look twice. Noticing the looks on their faces, he leaves, muttering, “I’ll go warm up the Vic.” Then came the wrist and hand message Pat alluded to.
I am also to assume to rehearsal dinner went exceedingly well. Chuck offered no hint of any problems. “I plan on getting a champagne-buzz at my sister’s wedding and an extra long slow-dance with my date.” Sarah gave him that little embarrassed grin of hers.
It looked like a disconnect, but I don’t really beleive it was Sarah’s fault. I suppose it would be easy for all of us to say “blow off the CIA and go have a normal life with Chuck.” That had been her life for 10 years. We find during their slow dance that indeed Sarah no longer “wanted to save the world,” but the whole assignment thing happened so fast for her.
Rick, what I believe happened was that Beckman and Larkin had a chat about our couple’s feelings for each other and naturally decided it was best to keep them apart even without the intersect in Chuck’s head. Now, you may argue that Chuck was offered a chance to work on the project, and I can only say I’m not sure if that offer was sincere or not.
I’ve always believed that Sarah is a little too intimidated by and certainly reserved around Beckman for my liking. The only time she ever talks back is when she defends or argues on Chuck’s behalf. She has believed for several episodes that Chuck is special. She gets upset when he loses confidence, puts himself down and feels sorry for himself. Did you see her frown when he said, “I’m just Chuck Bartowski, I’m not a hero?”
All I saw from Sarah after Beckman asked her to stay behind was puzzled looks, bewilderment and raised eye brows. I honestly don’t think she had a clue. But like Pat correctly points out, Sarah has a lot on her plate at that moment, and damn it, Beckman never ever gives anyone a chance to refute her because she works the switch on the two-way teleconference monitor deftly.
Bryce says,”Larkin and Walker together again.” You can see Sarah’s lips trembling.
The scene behind the scenes at the wedding is classic Chuck. Every feeling he has about them is always more important than what Sarah might have on her mind. She tried like hell to tell him, but as usual the big dope interrupted her.
When Sarah first said “it is real,” she didn’t know she would be leaving in the morning. Once she found out, she knew she would have a tough choice between keeping her career or staying with Chuck. When she said she is leaving, I dont think she really knew what she wanted to do at that point. Im pretty sure that she was leaning toward Chuck, but what really solitified her choosing Chuck was when he used his spy money to give Ellie her dream wedding on the beach. Sarah said it herself, “It’s not what a normal guy would do.” I mean did you see the way she looked at Chuck on the beach scene. Priceless. How could she not choose him.
So i guess to answer your question, it was her job that made the change of heart, if you want to call it that. I would call it a small road block, cause without it we would never hear Sarah kinda say “I dont want to save the world… I wanna save…” which would be filled in by a you, or we would never hear Chuck say “I love you.” So im kinda glad in the way it played out. The dancing scene was the best part of that episode.
I am a huge Charah fan, and i want them to be together, but i look at the last 2 episodes in a different way than you did Rick. You think season 3 will be the writers usual love interest crap. For me, i think the writers will have the relationship take a few steps back but eventually become even stronger than it was originally. An example of that would be what you already pointed out the “it’s real” to “I’m leaving” to her choosing Chuck. The relationship is strong at its real…takes a step back at I’m leaving.. but only to grow even stronger when she chooses Chuck. This is what i look forward to in S3
If you are worried about season 3 being a repeat of seasons 1 and 2, dont be. The writers are creative enough to bring in some new material to dazzle us with. They arent stupid and they will find a way to mix things up a bit but still keeping with the main themes of the show. I mean they did a pretty darn good job with the first 2 seasons. It may look like a repeat as of now, but they would be foolish to do that. Season 3 is looking to be AWESOME and the best season yet.
Only if we could get that long wait to be over with already. Its been 5 months since ive seen a new episode of chuck and we still got 6 months to go. Killer.
I’m hoping other chuckaholics view the last two episodes the way that i do because it really will make for an interesting season 3.
“Then the VERY NEXT MORNING (the day of the wedding) – in “The Ring†episode, Chuck talks to her, starts to spill his guts, and she tells him she’s leaving in the morning and it’s top secret. We go from “It’s real†to “BYE!†in less than 24 hours.”
Rick, you and a lot of other people are missing one very important event here. Specifically, the marriage proposal that wasn’t. When a man starts a sentence with “(Insert her full name here), will you do me the honor…”, the woman expects that sentence will end with “…of becoming my wife?’ It’s obvious from the expression on her face that this is exactly what Sara is hoping to hear. Unfortunately for Chuck, he only asked Sarah to go on vacation with him.
Sarah defines herself in terms of her job. It’s the only source of consistency in her life, and it’s also her way of doing penance for all of the crimes she was involved in as a child. Seriously, does anyone really expect to throw that away in exchange for a round trip to Cabo?
Sarah has had marriage on her mind at least since vs. the Wookie, when her immediate response to hearing the word diamond was “Are you looking to settle down?” The bottom line is that Chuck’s offer wasn’t good enough.
Interesting and insightful. I have to admit that I was disappointed when Chuck said “go on a vacation with me.” You’re right – “marry me” would seem to have been the logical way to finish that sentence. However, it could also be that “marry me” might have been too much too soon for Sarah – however much she might be desiring it – considering all the ups and downs they’d experienced in their “relationship” (fake or otherwise) up to that point.
That’s why I’d like to see the realtionship continue to develop slowly but surely (hopefully without the cheesy “other love interests”). There is a lot of depth to Sarah, especially based on her sucky childhood/upbringing, that can be revealed as they get closer together. Would make for great storytelling.
But I do have a slight disagreement. I think her mind was already made up. If Chuck would have said “marry me,” I think (at least at this point in the relationship) that she wouldn’t have said “yes,” but would have freaked out, not being “ready” for something like that. It would have been better for Chuck to say it (rather than the lame vacation offer), but I still think her response would still have been the same – perhaps still leaving out of a “panic response” to the offer of marriage.
I’m not totally disagreeing with you, but I see various possiblities here. It will be MOST INTERESTING to see how this all pans out in S3. I’m just hopeful that the relationship will be treated in the adult manner that it should (at least at this stage in the game), and not having one or the other get their hormones going over the next good looking babe or stud that walks onto the scene. I’m still thinking (and hoping) that these teasers are not what they seem. Hopefully the won’t be.
Thanks for the response! 🙂
Eve if that intriguing theory of yours is correct(of which I’m not sure)
It still doesn’t explain her leaving, she got orders to leave and Chuck
proposing to her after they hadn’t dated one full time(besides the cover-date in the pilot, and the botched “First Date” ,and haven’t had sex yet, would be pretty stupid, not to mention extremely naive…and although Chuck seems to be a little naive, he isn’t that far-fetched from reality.
So, no…the reason she left wasn’t because Chuck didn’t propose(though I felt his way of introducing the vacation question was dumb and demeaning to Marriage), it was because the writing was crappy and made Sarah look…well…not nice, to say the least.
Alex
I went back and watched “The Ring” again to refresh my memory. Chuck barely is able to get started with his little “vacation” speech and Sarah is telling him basically to “STOP, I have something important to tell you.” He tries to continue again, and for a SECOND time she tries to stop him to tell him this important thing (that she’s leaving) before he barely gets two words out of his mouth.
So, basically, we don’t even get anywhere near the point where he “pops the (right or wrong question depending on your viewpoint). She’s ready to cut him off right from the start and tell him she’s leaving before he gets even two words out of his mouth. Go back and watch that portion of the episode again and you’ll see what I mean.
So I’m back to my original point. She goes from “it’s real” to “goodbye” in less than 24 hours – for just for a job promotion? And like Alex said, even after having committed TREASON/going AWOL to save Chuck in the previous episode. That’s one hell of a turnaround.
The “job promotion” seems like an awfully WEAK reason for such a dramatic turnaround in less than 24 hours, especially after what had transpired in the previous 48 hours between Chuck and Sarah.
So, I’m going to side with Alex on this one. As much as I don’t like to be negative, it’s crappy writing. Sometimes I give good homilies, sometimes I give “crappy ones,” no matter how hard I try to always give good ones. Even TV show writers can get into “crappy” funks in their writing. We don’t have to defend them to the death and say that they’re always “right” and “correct” in what they’re doing.
I think this was an example of “not so good” writing. After all. Nobody bats 1,000!! I’m just hopeful that – as I originally stated – that S3 won’t have such roller coaster rides like occured in the last two episodes of S2, or I WILL be wretching on my fooltong Subway Sweet Onion Chicken Teryaki. I’m hoping for some “smoother sailing.” Some occasional waves, sure – why not. But, please, no more TIDAL waves!
I’ll be watching, but I’ll be swallowing dramamine, nexium, and tums while I’m doing it if the roller coaster ride continues to the same degree as the end of S2.
And I’ll say it again. “Normal” difficulties, struggles, hardships, etc., in their relationship because of who they are and what they do are fine. Nothing wrong with that at all. The other “stuff” we need to move beyond. It is, after all, the THIRD season!!
That’s all I wanted to say. Peace, all!! 🙂
Rick Holy: Remember in the “Break Up” Chuck said they could never be together long term because he wanted a normal relationship and she was anything but normal. Chuck said it to protect her but Sarah still does not know the truth. Sarah has real financial responsibilities and she is totally dependent on herself. Chuck and Sarah had not finalized any concrete plans so Sarah did not have any direction other than what she felt she had to do. She does not know anything but the business she is in. Chuck’s invitation for a vacation was lame and was right up there with lets have a roll in the hay. Based on his break up excuse it then seems they would go their separate ways. Sarah had a somewhat change of heart when Chuck uses his pay to give his sister a wedding–that good act at least validates to Sarah that Chuck is a good person. The affection in The Colonel made it considerably more appealing to me than the overhyped Ring. As you know the Courtyard is constantly being monitored. Sarah needs to be shown the Roan Montgomery tapes when Chuck says he would give up his life for her–the White coat that Chuck had to rent would also give her a feeling for how much he loves her. The Bryce Larkin conversations also took place in the courtyard and would let Sarah know the real reason for the break up was to protect her and Chuck was doing what he felt was right not what he wanted to do-The wedding reception where Chuck tells his Dad that he loves Sarah would be the icing on the cake. Chuck also needs to quit whining about how he just wants to be normal–During all of the second season several instances come up with Sarah projecting a concern for the disappointment Chuck laid on her in the Break Up–Remember her comments to her Dad in the DeLorean episode. Remarks to Chuck at the end of the “Best Friend” as well as her glance at Chuck’s hand holding her’s’-there were a couple of others–Chuck sometimes acts like he does not realize he needs to mend some fences with Sarah.–and he needs to quit having a wandering eye. Superman and the guest from Smallville do not bode well for the show-Spoilers from a Chuck interview seem to validate a situation between Superman and Sarah–if that gets to heavey and Superman moves in with Sarah or gets intimate to the extreme I would definetly quit watching the show.-I smell a love triangle and increased angst-ugh. Swartz indicated he knew what they were going to do in the final episode of season 3–I am a little uncompfortable about that situation. I hope it does not leave a lot of things in the air if the show is not renewed.
My apologies for responding so late to your question regarding the ending to the “Colonel and the beginning to “The Ring.”
In my humble view there are times when the dialogue in Chuck seems to have double meanings to it. It is my belief that you believe when Chuck and Sarah were talking about it being “real”, they were talking about their relationship. But could it not also be interpreted that they were talking about the fact Chuck had finally gotten the intersect out of his mind? Or that Chuck was talking about getting rid of the intersect and Sarah was talking about their relationship? Maybe Sarah wanted to talk with Chuck about their future together but Chuck was too elated over being set free from the intersect and they therefore never got a chance to discuss their relationship.
Also who knows what, if anything went on after the rehearsal dinner? Sometimes we tend to fill in those gaps in the stories with what we think should have happened, not what actually did happened. To me, I just assumed that after the rehearsal dinner everyone went home to rest up for the big wedding day the next day. Remember that before going to the church, Chuck and Casey resigned from the Buy More and then had the final team Bartowski meeting in the castle.
I’m assuming Chuck and Sarah never really had a discussion about what the two wanted to do together before Beckman asked Chuck if he wanted to be an analyst. Sarah did seem upset that Chuck did not what to work for the govt. Maybe Sarah thought that if Chuck had decided to take up Beckman’s offer, it was an indication from Chuck that he wanted to continue his relationship with her. Since he didn’t, Sarah then h
What and where was the post Ali made regarding the spoiler on marriage and the
direction the show is taking? I cannot find it. Someone please advise, thanks.
Appreciate Ludo’s and Lisa’s posts, thanks. Rick Holy, always like to read
your comments,observations, and questions, keep them coming, thanks.
It wasn’t Ali’s post, she just reacted to a fan who suggested it…
It was in her video. She said that we all want Chuck and Sarah here. Then she pointed to a wedding picture of Chuck and Sarah from suburbs.
She said will we get there who knows but have faith or something like that.
he wasn’t referring to that AC, but to a tweet some fan did which he hinted at Chuck and Sarah married, and Ali uttered something vague and incoherent about that.
I don’t think she responded to him. I think someone RT like Ali responded.
It seemed to me that both point and counterpoint made the argument for no more Chuck/Sarah angst.
However, I think I agree most with the Heroes Journey – either put them together or leave them apart.
While I would prefer together, I just want it over and done with one way or the other. So we can move onto having a more feel good show.
Love geometric shapes are so sickening.
I had a thought for a poll question on chuckmeout website:
As a fan what would you like most in S3
1. No more love geometric shapes
2. Less Buy More antics and more spy action
3. More Buy More antics
4. Sarah and Chuck slowly buidling their relationship
5. Sarah and Chuck Engagement/Wedding
you know Gord, the fifth option is not even remotely possible…
(I mean REAL Engagement/Wedding).
Agree with you here, bud. And truthfully, it’s not what I’m even hoping for (unless, of course, they find out well enough in advance that S3 will be the last – which hopefully won’t be the case).
In fact, Alex, I so strongly agree with you that I’ve previously stated (I think it was on this site) that if Chuck and Sarah get married in S3 – and I mean a REAL wedding, not some fake thing – I’d be willing to fly out to California at my own expense and perform the ceremony myself. They wouldn’t even need to hire/pay for an actor to play the part! 🙂
If I’m wrong and S3 isn’t the last and they DO get married in S3, then I will happily wipe all the egg off my face! 😉
Bottom line, it just ain’t gonna happen!!! And that’s actually O.K., as long as the relationship moves forward in SOME logical, ADULT way.
I don’t think it is a good idea for them to get married this season, I just thought it should be a one option in the poll. Just because I don’t think it should happen doesn’t mean a majority of the fans think the same way.
I believe it might be helpful to all, to see how such a poll would play out.
Are those of us that are tired of love geometric shapes just a small but vocal minority?
Also of all the things fans want to see in S3, how important is the relationship stuff to them?
Many assume that it is a majority of fans that don’t like the direction hinted at in the casting announcements, but we really have no way of knowing.
When I look at the messages posted at EW.com related to Chuck, there are a vast majority stating how excited they are about S3 and wish it would start sooner. Probably only about a third are upset with the caasting announcements hinting that these characters will be love interests for Sarah and Chuck.
Gord, are they reading the same announcements that WE are on THIS site?? Just kidding.
I agree with you. I don’t think a wedding this season is a good idea, either – that’s why I’d be shocked if it actually happened. If it DID, wouldn’t THAT be a way for JS and CF to tells all the “shippers” (myself included), SO THERE!! 😉
From what I’ve seen on the chuckmeout.com community message board, it seems to me like a majority of fans (at least those who post on that site) were tired of the “love geometric shapes” as well. I didn’t take a scientific count, but that seemed to be the general vibe.
I still think these teaser spoilers are just for the purpose of yanking our chains (and for more web site chatter) – but you never know….
those who are excited are toughly a third of CHUCK’s viewers, if you take a cross section of all the Chuck forums and sites , you will find out that the worried people(so to speak) of the direction of the show is taking(to a varying degree of worry) are the majority of audience.
Not remotely possible? In the real world, Southwest Airlines alone has nearly two dozen flights a day between LAX & LAS. A real couple could hypothetically elope to Vegas and be back in LA on the same day, if they’re willing to forego an overnight stay for the honeymoon.
Of course if Chuck & Sarah were to do this, the ceremony would have to be kept top secret. I’d love to see Ellie badgering Chuck about popping the question to Sarah, and him not being able to tell her the truth.
I didn’t mean not physically possible, but conceptually and writing wise…It doesn’t hold the creator’s interest to let them be together, and much more than that to get them married, unless of course it’s a cover wedding…but, in all frankness I don’t see Chuck going along with
this, it will be a case of so close and yet so far.
And an emotionally affected Chuck as he is supposed to be in S3, due do the Intersect 2.0, will have a lot of troubles with THAT bearing on his feelings.
Pat & Alex. Thanks for your responses. You both have MUCH BETTER memories than I, that’s for sure!! If Season 2 would be released on DVD, I would have a better chance at “remembering” these details (HINT, HINT!!!).
I understand what both of you wrote. Based on your filling in the gaps for me, I still feel the disconnect, however, for this reason. I understand, Pat, what you’re saying about “duty vs. love.” All the previous times that Sarah “changed her mind” or “put a halt” to the relationship with Chuck – and least in my rather poor memory – is when the General basically ORDERED her to put a halt to it for Chuck’s safety. (Actually, Beckman didn’t care about Chuck’s safety in particular, but rather the Intersect’s safety – but that’s not important to where I’m going).
Where I AM going is that basically the general “freed” Chuck to do whatever he wanted. Sarah was no longer obligated to make any decision based on having to protect him based on General Beckman’s orders. That was always (or usually) what prevented her before.
A sense of duty, a sense of validation by being given a promotion, or whatever similar thing just seems like a weak reason to me to change so drastically from “It’s real” to “It’s over,” especially AFTER “The Colonel” episode and everything that transpired in it between Chuck and Sarah (as Alex mentioned, especially her willingness to commit treason/go AWOL for Chuck in the previous episode).
Yes, I know Sarah is flawed, but I don’t believe that she’s THAT flawed.
Anyway, thanks for both of your responses. I’m just hoping in S3 that it won’t be such a herky-jerky roller coaster ride, or I’ll be barfing up my Sweet Onion Chicken Teryaki’s (on whole wheat with spinach and tomato) all over myself! An occasional bump in the road that moves them forward will be one thing – I’ll be able to keep the sandwich down – but the “being turned upside down” like in the last two episodes of S2, then it’s all bets off!!
Thanks again – and PEACE, all!! 🙂
make that “AT least in my rather poor memory” in paragraph 2. 🙂
Thanks, also kg. Your post came up after my previous one.
“Sarah & Chuck – made for each other?”
my answer is “YES”!! it’s obvious!!
in S3 we need to see them together!! in S1 we were waiting for 9episodes to see a simple kiss, in S2 22episodes to see a real thing 😉 (and finally nothing happened…)
we DESERVE to see sth more between them!!
of course only if this won’t affect the ratings…!! (and a S4 renewal!!)
LOL – these responses are longer than the article.
Yessiree. But it keeps the conversation going!! 😉 And it’s interesting to get all the different feedback/perspectives.
March still seems like such a looooooong way away 🙁
Lisa, I agree with OldDarth. You summed up the literary/artistic reasons for obstacles very well.
Alex, you may be right about it being a third of the viewers – but more likely a third of the posts on the boards.
Sorry for playing devils advocate but consider the following.
When I go to the Angst Vs True Lies forum on the NBC Chuck boards, I see about maybe a little over a dozen people really engaged in the discussion. All making multiple posts.
If I recall I read that ratings for Chuck averaged over 6 million viewers. At most I would say I have seen the opinions of 200 people both pro and con. That really is a small portion of Chuck viewers.
What I am wondering is do how the other 5,999,800 Chuck fans feel about the Chuck Sarah relationship. I’m not a statistician, but is 200 a fair sample size for over 6 million people?
Personally, I am sick of love geometric shapes and would like to see Sarah and Chuck together.
But if it means an end to all the soap-opera style plot lines, I would reluctantly settle for Chuck and Sarah being permanently apart. Although I am probably in a very small minority that thinks that way and it’s unlikely to happen.
Even with that poll question – it is unscientific and probably would only be a slightly better reflection of how Chuck fans are feeling than you would get from reading the boards.
So the question stands – are the shippers a majority of the fans or a very vocal minaority?
I would dare say, that regular shippers are the majority of the viewers, I’m not calling all of them fans, fans are the ones who saved the show…
the fans have two very distinct groups, one that prepare to let the creative staff do what they want and the hell with charah, for them it’s a part of the show like any other parts. the second group are Charah shippers.
I estimate those groups as more or less equal(maybe the shippers are a bit more)So if you take the hardcore shippers(within the fans) and the majority of the viewers (who can be called regular shippers)you get that most of the audience will not respond kindly to degrading Chuck and Sarah’s relationship even lower than it is now(NOW is when Chuck said “I know Kong-Fu” and doesn’t know that Sarah decided to stay…), so yes they are a majority amongst viewers(though not necessarily amongst fans).
Alex
I’m sorry but didn’t Bryce tell Chuck that Sarah wasn’t going to go with him? He didn’t get to say she was going to stay with Chuck, but at least Chuck knew she wasn’t planning on leaving with Bryce.
he did utter that in the Intersect room, but Chuck was too obfuscated with
his friend dying, he didn’t really grasp his words, the ambiance was too tense and foreboding,and I’m also sure that uploading Intersect 2.0 was partly(thought not only, and perhaps mainly) because a part of him just refused to let Sarah go(some of the best fics around, support that theory).
I also believe that if Chuck would have known for sure that Sarah decided to stay with him and give a chance to that ‘normal’ life, he wouldn’t have
uploaded the damn thing(and thus practically negating all that he strove for these two years, getting IT out in order to be with the girl he loves).
Alex
In my first line I meant of course that not all of the 6 mil.demography of viewers are called fans.
Having read EW.com and other spoiler tidbits it appears certain that Chuck/Sarah are not together from the very beginning of S3. Given then the love geometries start in episode 4 and allowing the arc durations of S2, that suggests that that element of the show will be blocked until at least episode 9 (assuming the two arcs are not run concurrently). Allow two episodes to build back a relationship which is pulled apart during the series finale (episode 13), that leaves only one positive Chuck/Sarah episode in S3.
Given the shortened season and the spoilers flying about, I expect more WTWT and childish high school angst to destroy that element of what is otherwise a fine show well before mid-season.
The problem is that, to return to the Heros Journey at this point is surely problematic (having gone far further than Luke/Leia ever did in SW). The Heros Journey also requires the pain of loss – anyone see a permanently fatal wound in the future for the character of Sarah?
One other thing, it was the vocal part of the fan base that worked to save this show and have NBC order even a shortened S3 so shouldnt the views of that demographic be listened too by the execs/producers? At this point, it could be said that the producers vision wasnt strong enough to secure renewal and it was, to the most part, the vocal relationship backers/fans who saved the show. With the economic environment within which we now live, this is likely to be the final season unfortunately so why not go out setting that relationship in place so the end could be about wonderful spy stories and comedic moments.
Now that Chuck has the intersect 2.0 in his head it’s obvious that he and Sarah will not be together from the beginning of season 3. We will see them struggle again to work things out.
The relation between them depends of NBC choice to order another 9 episodes or not and they order a fourth season. If they do any of the two things we will see Chuck and Sarah building their relatonship and if these 13 episodes are the last of the show i think that we will see get together for real in the last 2 episodes.
I read somewhere that a decision to add another 9 episodes in season 2 was made after the NBC execs saw the first episodes of the season, maybe they will do the same thing again and we will have more episodes to watch Chuck and Sarah get together.
Again, what is wrong with Chuck and Sarah being together?
They are a (fake)couple and still go on missions and have problems and stuff. Is there any difference if they are a fake or REAL couple?
Either way they still have feelings and care for each other and if Morgan and Anna, Ellie and Aweome have real relationships, why can’t they?
Because Sarsar,
There is no angst in that. If Chuck and Sarah are in a committed relationship the idea of love interests goes out the window. As long as they are not together Josh can continue to put other people in their paths.
Wrong. Once Sarah & Chuck get together, the central question changes to how far they will go in order to STAY together. There’s plenty of opportunity for angst there.
Excellent point – and I’d rather see THAT angst than the “other love interest” angst variety!
I agree. If we get another nine eps for S3 or a fourth season we will see them get together so realax people. Dont stop watching the show and u Chara fans will be rewarded. U also get some great laughs along the way. For now though, they will have to struggle to get their realtionship to move forward (i’m guessing for the first 2 eps of S3) and all those love geometric shapes aren’t really love intrests but only marks. They will just make it seem like they are to make the other jelous which is bit childish though may have a lot comedic elements to it (im always for the comedy and action.) Thats what couples do. They work together and the realtionship grows. I’ve been married 18 years and each day my bond with signifigant other grows. The same will have to go with Chuck and Sarah. There going to have to get through the good and the bad times together. Thats what a relationship is all about.
I have to concur with most of Aardvarks feelings. I do not feel the relationship between Sarah and Chuck needs to be complicated–Sarah and Chuck’s long term loving relationship being a given allows viewers the opportunity to enjoy the comedy and action. I do not think you can enjoy the comedy and action with overbearing heartache. Love triangles and feelings of great disappointment need to be done away with—there is so much more to be enjoyed as long as it does not include the angst that has been in seasons 1&2 and make it so easy to change channels. I think people in the real world want to be entertained–if they enjoy “angst” they can watch the news. Regardless of which side you are on there is only one “supreme truth” the market will dictate Chuck’s future existence. Which of the two scenarios has the best Chance of insuring Chuck’s future—I think it is the more positive with Chuck and Sarah as a loving couple being the basic element in the shows success. It really does not matter what you or I feel as individuals—the harsh realities of the market will dictate. As much as we care for the show it is only a television show and viewership must justify it’s existence. I think as Chuck and Sarah’s relationship goes, so goes the future of the show.
I have always thought that a fitting ending to the show would be a scene where Ellie receives a note from Sarah with a picture of Sarah (holding a dark haired infant boy),Chuck (with his arm around Sarah) and twin blond headed girls in martial arts uniforms)–all with big smiles. The note could say Ellie and Awesome: This is our most current family picture. We love you and miss you. Chuck is still the ever doting husband and father–we all love it and know you, Ellie are largely responsible for that–thanks from the bottom of our hearts–we are blessed.
Larry very nice post. I agree with you that this is not the audience for angst. The Chuck fans are loyal and will welcome Chuck and Sarah together. There is enough misery in this world, I find out every time I put the news on. I don’t want to feel misreable after watching Chuck.
The whole reason why I love the show is that it is such a funny and heartwarming show. I really enjoy Chara when there is little to or no angst. Tension is fine it is part of life but constant heartache and other love interests I can do without.
Chuck, the show, was and is primarily a comedy action surely. If the producers had wanted an angst filled drama then could they not have tooled it from the get go as a Gossip Girls or other tweeny drama?
The problem, I see it, possibly stems from back in S1 with the writers strike which cut short that season and forced a rather more dramatic final episode than the various plot lines were carrying to that point. That final episode is in many ways out of step with the episodes before it regards character story lines. Unfortunately, those character states were carried forward into S2 and then had to be back stepped massively so as to allow original ideas to be reincorporated. And lets face it, a break-up was the easiest way to do that.
The problem is that in television today, what works once is reused until ratings reach zero – how many reality game shows are there on TV now?
This element should either be moved forward or dropped completely. The back and forth just makes for an easy channel change decision. Surely, the trials and tribulations of a couple trying to have a relationship (even if it fails at times) while maintaining the jobs the characters have would be more interesting (and more of an escape) than what is currently being offered. Which is why we watch TV in the first place.
I do agree with you Larry though that as the Chuck/Sarah element has been made a primary aspect of the show now, with it rise and fall the fortunes of the show. Unfortunately, by spoiler evidence alone, the shows creatives seem committed to another season of unsophisticated, insane geometries come hell or high water.
With 1/3 of S3 already shot, and the S3 break-up episodes up next, little of hope remains for positive or happily funny/comedic action happening. Welcome to Gossip Girls, take 2 everyone.
I hope you’re wrong. My worst fear is that you’re right. But being in the business of “hope,” I’ll stick with hope until actually seeing the episodes. Good post.
Well Rick Shaw is cast for 6 episodes so what does that tell you about their Chara intentions.
Just wondeirng were u found out that rick shaw will be there for 6 episodes? and would u happen to know when and how long hannah appears? and also is she and Shaw are going to appear at the same time? thankyou
Great Post Link. I agree that this show has not had the ideal path. I wonder how the different the story would have played out without the strike. I guess the resets are a result of that. IMO Chara moved really fast in S1 and now everytime the showrunners try to out the Geenie back in the bottle the fans get irritated by with them.
Well eventually they have to pay up.
it only moved fast in the season end, it actually stopped (painfully so) with Nemesis and Crown Vic, and Undercover Lover was a side episode…so it actually was the Marlin that pushed things forward(and even that was merely theoretical, since they didn’t kiss or something like that, but the roof scene showed Saeah’s emotions more than she was
probably aware),besides it’s not only because of the strike, that was an easy excuse when S&F found out that Charah has become their central, out-of-control theme which they neither planned nor wanted, and frustrated with the strike that stopped eventual continuation, they were forced to end S1 with a relatively pro-Charah episode like “Marlin”(I’m pretty sure that if the season were to go full 22 eps, we would have seen many more “Nemesis” and “Crown Vic” and other angst-fest stories), so when the proverbial cat ran out of the bag, it continued to S2, and then they had to use the resets in order for the show to remain ‘theirs\'(since they didn’t like the fact that the
viewers wanted to see Charah), and to keep the out-line of the show remotely as they planned.
not really a positive proceeding, though circumstances also played a
part in those little nuances .
Rick Holy-We never know for sure what a writers intent is during the course of the season–First season Sarah protected Chuck by not letting him know of her feelings, second season Chuck broke up with Sarah to protect her. First season Bryce told Sarah she always had problems talking about relationships.
I think the hurt and disappointment of the Break Up (season2, episode 3)came up in many of the season 2 episodes. In the Delorean when she said something about her dad prepared her for disappointment–I think the statement was not only because of her dad’s action, but also Chucks in the Break Up.This concern for being disappointed was also projected in the last scenes of the Best Friend when she looked down at his hand holding hers. We need to remember that in the break up he told her they could never be together–big problem to overcome in the relationship. The Colonel was one of my favorite episodes–the Ring was not in my top ten. When Sarah was told of her promotion I think she felt she had to take it, her facial features showed she was conflicted–Chuck already said they could not be together–the poor girl has to eat and she depends on herself. Chuck asking her to take a vacation was lame–give up her job, go on a vacation and then what?–according to Chuck they are not going to be together–of course he said that to keep Sarah safe and did not mean what he said, however she does not know that–the thing that made Sarah want to stay was the unselfish attitude of Chuck to save Ellie’s wedding. There have been many nice things done for Ellie but what has Chuck done for Sarah. He even forgot Valentine’s Day–I have been married many years and I do not forget Valentines Day. Sometimes Chuck acts like he forgot what he said to Sarah about not being able to be together. He does seem to remember what he gave up while talking to Sarah in the Third Dimension
We all know there is surveillance in the courtyard where Chuck and Casey reside. The tape of Roan Montgomery and Chuck when Chuck says she is worth giving up his life, as well perhaps as the white coat rental conversation need to be known by Sarah. Sarah also needs to see the two conversations Chuck and Bryce had concerning Sarah’s safety. Another biggie is the statement Chuck made to his father in The Ring,”Dad I Love Her” These would help immensely in Sarah believing in Chuck’s deep love for her. Did the writers set this up to happen, I guess we will see. I truly believe you cannot fully enjoy comedy and adventure in the face of heartache. Lets remedy it in season three–no more love triangles–then let the comedy and adventure run wild. If the Sarah and Chuck’s romance does not run smoothly then I am confident Chuck will run out at the end of season 3–it does not have to happen.
I went back and watch “The Ring” again. On the morning of the wedding, Sarah hardly lets Chuck get a word out of his mouth before she tries to stop him TWICE to tell him she’s leaving. She had made up her mind before he uttered the lame “go on vacation with me” line.
I could follow the line of thinking which you laid out very well – if it wasn’t for “The Colonel” episode. For me, everything changed in that episode. They went from “it’s real” to “goodbye” in less than 24 hours. It’s real MEANT something – it HAD to mean something to Sarah or she wouldn’t have said it. I forget what episode it was but do you remember when Chuck told her “I AM going to get this thing out of my head, and when I do, I’m going to spend the rest of my life with the girl I love.” (or something like that, I know I’m not quoting it exactly). Then you see her face and THAT expression as far as I’m concerned “overcame” the effects of the breakup episode.
So then he DOES get the Intersect out of his head, and at the end of “Colonel” she says it’s REAL. What does “It’s real mean – other than IT’S REAL!” Then, BOOM, less than 24 hours later, it’s back to “goodbye” with a job offer/promotion or whatever being the only “new thing” interjected into the storyline.
I love the show, but THAT just didn’t fly. And I’m in COMPLETE and TOTAL agreement with you about NO MORE TRIANGLES. That won’t fly either. Truthfully, I don’t think there will be any SERIOUS triangles – at least involving Chuck and Sarah. I think alot of these spoilers and casting announcements are just blowing smoke. TPTB want us talking for six more month – and they’re making certain we do.
Let’s just hope they move things forward – LIKE THEY SHOULD – in Season 3, because it may very well be the last – Subway or no Subway!
In my opinion Sarah telling Chuck that she was leaving in Ring was not incongruent. At that point she was in turmoil over the confilct between service and personal life.
When I was in the military there were many times where service came before family/personal life. Eventually, people in these kind of professions determine that it is time to put personal life/family first. It is not an easy decision to make.
Sarah eventually convinced herself it was time for a normal life. That is what will add tension in S3. After making such a hard decision, and convincing yourself that it is the right decision, she will be very disappointed – perhaps even angry that the opportunity was snatched away from her.
hey just wodnering how many episodes will rick shaw be there for?
I think it was written here somewhere…
No, it wasn’t. We do not not how many episodes Shaw will appear in, nor Hannah.
It was quoted from a TV-Guide:
http://yfrog.com/6gscan001cj
Ah, my mistake. I hadn’t seen that from TV Guide yet. Six episodes? That means The Ring is going to be a major threat this season. Love it!
I want charah together!!! Its one of the main reasons i watch the show that and Casey always being snippy at Chuck 🙂
Brandon Routh playing Daniel Shaw Character on Chuck for 6 episodes? That is terrible news. I have tried to remain positive with all the negative Chuck and Sarah spoilers to come out but this really sucks! Not only do we get to see a sequel to Cole, with this one now probably scoring with Sarah, but for a added bonus we get to see this guy take command of Team Bartowski and order them around. With a 13 Season Episode of Chuck that give him close to half of the Season to wreck(In My Opinion) the show. Realistically if this guy is in charge of Team Bartowski then he has no business messing around with Sarah (A subordinate), I wonder what excuse they will give to explain the way around this one. I really have enjoyed seeing Chuck, Sarah and Casey going on missions together in Season 1 and Season 2. The idea that is guy will be leading them dehumanizes them just as they dehumanized Chuck in the beefcake episode to make Cole so much better. Spoilers are supposed to make people excited as to see what will be coming up on the show not depress and upset the fans. Shows are supposed to entertain people not depress them. Will they or won’t they? Will I or won’t I watch Season 3. I hope too, I want too, but is this really what I want to see? These questions I keep asking myself as more and more bad news related to Chuck and Sarah come out. I don’t want to see them rushed into an engagement, married or even living together but they do need to move them forward not backwards. I personally don’t believe the show will survive without bringing Chuck and Sarah together.
you’re right Halley…It won’t
Six episodes? Is that REALLY true? The only way that I could see that is if he was to replace Emmitt Milbardge – not be involved with the spy antics of Chuck, Sarah and Casey.
It’d be one thing if the casting coup was someone like Robert Downey, Jr. or Edward Norton (guys that have played other superheroes in movies and are much better known – and more talented actors). But six episodes for someone who appeared in ONE Superman movie?? Nothing personal against Mr. Routh. I’m sure he’s a very nice man. But let him get his own show!! I’d prefer that half the season of Chuck – which could possibly be the LAST season – be taken up by Superman.
Yeesh. Hopefully this news is incorrect. 3 episodes, fine. 6, forget it.
oops! I meant NOT be taken up by Superman!
From from a TV-Guide : “Superman Returns star Brandon Routh guests in AT LEAST SIX episodes…”
Wow, he will be a main character in season 3, look out Charah. 🙁
If he gets 6 or more, then Kristin Kreuk deserves all 13 !!
Hey, I just thought of something. We don’t know everything about Sarah’s past – obviously.
I don’t remember the original post of Mr. Routh’s guest starring on Chuck, but if it said he is a potential “rival for Sarahs’ affections,” then how’s this for a far-fetched possibility.
HE’S HER BROTHER!!!! That would justify having him around for six or more episodes.
To add to my last post with Brandon Routh being put in as basically a new key star for the show instead of just the guest star for the show it will certainly mean that we will see less of Jeff and Lester. And what about poor Anna? They say she will be back in Season 3, but will she really be back? Where is Julia Ling? How many episodes will she be in? Is she being cut out to make room for Brandon Routh?
I’m not sure how Routh’s casting for the spy side of Chuck impacts Jeff, Lester and Anna from the Buy More world. It just means instead of a new character every week for the spy half of the show, we have the same character (and added continuity) for several episodes. You know, like when Scott Bakula and Chevy Chased joined the series for several episodes last season, at the same time that Jeffster saw additional screen time.
After reading hundreds of comments from the casting announcements, spoilers, this thread, etc., I keep thinking you all must have more information about the scripts than I do. Nothing about the casting announcements has me concerned about Charah’s ultimate destination, nor that Routh (or Kreuk) joining the show for several episodes means this will be the last season. But then, I’m much more interested in what was confirmed by the casting announcement: Routh’s Shaw will serve as a mentor for Chuck and an authority on The Ring.
The fact that he’ll be around for 6 episodes tells me that The Ring is going to be a major arc this season, like Fulcrum/Roark were for the latter part of season 2. According to the TV Guide scan Alex linked to above, which doesn’t say a word about Shaw as a potential love interest for Sarah, Chris Fedak says, “This season, Chuck’s training wheels will come off – he’s about to find out how truly dangerous and scary this espionage stuff can be.” That is what I’m interested in, not some insider’s throwaway comment that Shaw could be “a potential love interest”. The stakes are higher on both sides, it seems. Chuck has the Intersect 2.0, which requires formal training (finally!), and it sounds like while some of that will be played for laughs, there’s potential for some serious reprecussions from his new skills. Meanwhile, The Ring must be stepping up its game if an expert is called in to work with Team Bartowski.
So you’re more interested in the spy mantra stuff, that is all good and well… but a lot of others are more interested in the Romantic connection between Chuck and Sarah, and since S&F had openly declared that both C&S will
have other love interests(or PLI), and Routh now being around for that amount of time is certainly alarming and may spell trouble for Charah.
Alex
Sure, Routh could spell trouble for Charah in the short run, but long run we all know they’ll end up together. I think Routh’s real long-term impact will be on the spy world and Chuck in particular. I think he’ll continue what Sarah started last season when her trust and love (yeah, I said it) helped push Chuck outside his comfort zone and into being proactive about his future. I see Shaw as a source of strength and confidence for Chuck, which I can only think will ultimately be good for Charah.
Unfortunately I’m not as optimistic as you…I see them wallowing around in the sea of ridiculous love triangles and other geometric shapes, and the end-up together part seems to be too remote to be of any interest. I have a distinct feeling that keep separating them will spell the end of CHUCK(and I can’t help it, rightfully so).
And I’ve analyzed television/literature for long enough to know that they will end up together, so I’m not worried about it. If S&F really want to buck tradition, a Mr. & Mrs. Smith format (from the end of the film, not when they were trying to kill each other 😉 ) would be welcome. In the meantime, I intend to enjoy all that the show has to offer.
What constitutes short term. Is short term 4 out of the 6 episodes or most of the season. Are you satisified if they kiss and make up in 3.12. I am all for Shaw being here for 6 episodes but I just ask make him a mentor to Chuck and not be trying to steal his girl.
Also it was not an insider but MA said that Chuck and Hanna will have feelings for Hannah and Chuck and Morgan will be crushing on her.
It doesn’t matter if Chuck and Sarah are not damaged in the long run and they do end up together. If the journey constitues them even attempting to be with other people it just cheapens the payoff IMO.
I want a season of commitment from them where they may not be in a realtionship but they are committed to having one someday. So Sarah and Chuck should not be having feelings for anyone else besides each other. Even if it is short term it will only cheapen and dumb down their love for each other.
I have to agree(at least mostly) with AC, they don’t need outside love threats to prove to themselves they love each other, they should be well after it by now, certainly after “The Colonel”, and even with the “Ring”(which mostly damaged things), C&S love one another, and any other PLI just doesn’t make sense.
The various guest stars all bring something new to the show (not just their respective fan bases) and it was great to see Chase and Bakula in those final episodes of S2. The longest guest arc to date has been three episodes so a six episode arc for yet another love triangle, even if concurrently run against one for the character of Chuck, still means that more than half the season will require the viewer to sit through more teenage angst and accusations of who hurt who first. I finished high school years ago and had thought I was watching an adult comedy/action show, not some sweet 16 or sorority teen-drama. Well, havent the creatives proven me wrong! 🙁
The thing seems to be that Fedak/Schwartz fully realize just what they have in the Chuck/Sarah situation – a way of manipulating the audience week after week. Character development however is the first and greatest casualty of this situation as each time water is taken from this particular well, it diminishes the viewers acceptance of the characters feelings/opinions/beliefs. While not strictly speaking a dehumanizing event, the cumulative effect of repeat exposure could well end up being the same.
So we, the viewers, are left with only the last two episodes of the final ever season of Chuck possibly supporting forward momentum and I hold out no hope at this stage for any sort of positive conclusion. More likely will be some off screen action which will infer drastic separation followed by another ‘To Be Continued…’ What a shame that that will be the tombstone for what could easily have been a very entertaining and enjoyable comedy/action series.
Hi Mel. I don’t think most “Charah” fans are concerned with Chuck & Sarah’s FINAL destination. I’m not. It would be idiotic not for their final destination to be together. The problem is HOW THEY REACH THAT FINAL DESTINATION! If the road to it turns out to be the “wrong” one, it could mean the end of the show – and NOBODY wants that!
I won’t be so bold as to say I’m speaking for all “CHARAH” people, but it seems like the main thing people are saying is DON’T REPEAT THE SAME KIND OF STUFF FROM S1 AND S2 THAT YOU USED TO KEEP THEM APART. That’s it in a nutshell. The relationship has reached a certain point that should introduce other “difficulties,” not those from S1 and S2. THOSE are the things which should be explored in the relationship in S3, not re-hashed, worn out formulas from S1 and S2.
The problem is that the spoilers/teasers or whatever you want to call them that THIS and other sites release seems to not be able to resist putting in “rival for affection” or “potential romantic interest.” – which basically says “S1 & S2.” If they’re “throw away comments,” then why do TPTB or you or whoever is responsible for them bother to include them? They only stir up the pot. So when the pot gets stirred, there’s going to be some level of reaction. I don’t think you can say you didn’t expect what you’re seeing. After reading the spoiler releases, it’s no surprise to me what kind of reaction is happening.
TPTB HAVE to understand this. Remember the old saying, “Be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it!” Well, by adding these “throw away” things to the spoiler announcements, they’re getting what they asked for – a lot of chatter – and a lot of fan ANGST to go along with it.
I don’t know about you, but I’m all “angsted out.” I’d like to see less angst on the show, and if we want less “angst” on this site, maybe the next thread should be about the things you just mentioned above. Let’s take the conversation in another direction away from the angst-related stuff. This way you can introduce a thread without having to say “don your flak jackets!”
Regardless, a million thanks to you and your partners for all the work you do in maintaining this site. Disagreements, differences of opinion – whatever – it IS all in fun, no matter how seriously we may express ourselves at times. You’re by far and away the BEST Chuck site – and there’s no debating THAT! 🙂
Very well said. I would be incredibly happy to sit down to watch a wonderful show about spy antics (be they funny or serious or both) and the humor that only the Buy More can provide.
Thirteen episodes of such a show would surely generate a massive following and provide years of entertainment.
The point I guess Ive tried to make is that watching such things (such light hearted humor) is very difficult if you become jaded /depressed or disaffected with the characters within the story. That S3 is, given spoiler info, becoming a rehash of S2 is depressing even before a single episode screens.
This thread has been a good basis for some interesting discussion.
I was looking through the original casting announcements at EW.com and when it comes to Shaw. I have come up with a new perspective.
I have decided to focus on the keyword mentor. A mentor is more than someone who trains you, it is someone you trust, who looks out for your best interests.
This makes me think there will be very little angst between Chuck and Sarah over this character. Sure I could see Chuck being a bit jealous at first, but I doubt very much that Chuck would consider him a mentor if Shaw is trying to steel his girl. I don’t think they would want 6 episodes in a row of angst either.
As Mel pointed out, when you look at the positive aspects that surround the Shaw character, this is shaping up to be an awesome season.
So I completely aggree with the first statement.
That is EXACTLY what I am thinking and feeling!!!
Although I do like the fact that both sides of the argument can agree on one thing:
Chuck and Sarah need to stop the bull and get together.
We are tired of this back and forth nonsence.
It’s old.
Every single show on tv with male and female leads with tension have this back and forth thing.
It seems like someone somewhere made this rule that if they get together the show dies.
I want to kick that person in the pants.
I can understand wanting to delay the hook-ups and stalling in some shows like Bones, but with everything that has happened between chuck and Sarah that if the writers keep up the “will they, won’t they”… well it will just be an insult.
I know most pplz will disagree wit me but i really want to c jill come back, but this time instead of chuck being head over heals for her i want him to make it clear that he has chosen sarah over her, the same way sarah decided chuck over bryce. I serz dont know if i can w8 till march its just way to long far away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i also think that if its true that shaw will be there for six episodes, i doubt he will be a love interest (unless he and sarah only get interested in each other towards the end of his arc), i doubt F&S are that stupid that they will make a luv triangle last that long,especially when they know that half the fans will tune out if he really is a luv interest for six episodes.I think maybe that he just might be a guy who trains chuck or possibly he has feelings for sarah but sarah doesnt return those feeling as she is already devoted to chuck(fingers crossed).
I am also very interested in what hannah will do to Charah, i think in the end she might bring chuck and sarah closer together b/c im sure that F&S will hv a back up script just in case NBC pulls the plug on chuck, b/c i think they like the rest of the chuck fans will hate to see chuck end with chuck and sarah not being a real couple. However i am desperatly hoping that chuck is picked up for many more season, i dont think 3 season gives justice to a show like chuck, and my goodness i cant get enough of yvonne strahovksi she’s amazing!!!!
A six episode arc finishes at episode 10 so setting the PLI towards the end leaves little time for genuine truth and reconciliation between characters. Not impossible as this is just TV fantasy afterall and you have to suspend your disbelief at the start of each episode.
As this is a story about the rise of a superhero, who was lost from the path to greatness though, is this necessary? And does Chuck becoming a super spy secret agent take the basic story of `Chuck` to far away from its roots as the everyday guy thrust into an unfamiliar world, to survive through to further seasons? Is the story arc complete with Chuck emerging as superhero? Also, given that the birth of such heroes in western fiction tends to come from traumatic loss, are all the other characters going to survive that journey? Or does the show have two major story arcs for two different characters; the emergent superhero for one and the heroes journey for another?
The issues at the core of this are for the shows creatives to decide and to date, they have not done too bad – other than loving geometry.
As someone said above, the return of Jill could be interesting. Both Chuck and Sarah are guilty of saying (to each other) that their relationship is never going to happen but no such thing was said about Jill – possibly because she was a bad guy but she isn’t any longer so… and if the character of Sarah Walker pushes Chuck away because of Intersect 2, is the six episode arc there for the quadrangle and the discovery of love lost and the fight to regain it?
And that then only leaves the episode 13 cliff hanger… and break-up.
Hi there fellow Chuck fans.
I am absolutely in love with Chuck. I love every aspect of the show; the Spy action, the Buy More comedy, and of course the Charah romance.
I’ve got a few queries about “The Ring” though.
What exactly do you think Bryce meant when he told Daddy B that he had made a few changes to 2.0?
And am I the only one who was puzzled by Sarah’s slight over-reaction when The Ring guys lifted (a dead) Bryce from the Intersect room? It may be nothing but I found it a little peculiar.
As for S3, I think I am with the general consensus of wanting Charah to progress slowly, without the unneeded distraction of other love interests. All I am asking for is loyalty. I mean they Chuck has stated that he loves Srah and is willing to die for her, and Sarah was willing to give up her career for Chuck, and also loves him. It will just be foolish to have them pine for others.
Thanks.
Sorry if this is a double post, but my previous post is showing for some reason.
Hi there fellow Chuck fans.
I am actually in love with Chuck. I love every aspect of the show; the Spy action, the Buy More comedy and of course the Charah romance.
I do, however, have a few queries about the “The Ring”.
What exactly do you think Bryce meant when he told Daddy B that he had made a few changes to 2.0?
And am I the only one who noticed Sarah’s slight over-reaction to The Ring guys lifting (a dead) Bryce in the Intersect room? It may be nothing, but I just found it a bit peculiar.
As for S3 I think I’m with the genral consensus of wanting Charah to progress, without the unneeded distraction of love interests and triangles. I mean Chuck has stated he loves Sarah and is willing to die for her, and Sarah was willing to give up her career for Chuck, and clearly loves him too.
Basically I expect Chuck and Sarah to be loyal to each other. It would really dent my love for the show if Sarah suddenly wants Brandon Routh’s character, or if Chuck pines over KK’s character.
Thanks
Hi JTJ:
You bring up some interesting issues in your post. In terms of Sarah over reacting to a dead Bryce, actually I thought it was an appropriate response.
When you consider their history, it seems plausible.
In the backstory, Sarah and Bryce seemed to be boyfriend and girlfriend for about 4 years. Also, they served as C.I.A. partners approximately the same period or longer. They looked after each other professionally and emotionally especially seeing some of their missions in the back stories. I don’t think you just forget all that history.
Even though she chose Chuck over Bryce, I am sure she still cares for Bryce. They have an extensive history and that doesn’t just go away. Seeing her former lover and partner dead I am sure was a traumatic event.
In terms of the relationship, that is a difficult and complicated issue. I think Bryce’s death will have some impact on it going forward in the immediate future. Also, I would not be surprised if she feels some guilt about not accompanying Bryce for the Intersect upload. She might feel if she did go that maybe Bryce would have lived.
Using Bryce’s demise is another cheap and easy writing reason to separate Chuck and Sarah, but however the response to Bryce’s death was understandable, it wasn’t justifiable IMO…
Never she reacted with such passionate yelling to a case of presumed Chuck death(the mild cry-out on the roof in “First Date”, and the Silent treatment in “Best Friend”)although one might claim that in those cases she never saw a body, which makes it all more tangible and inescapable,I can accept that, though I do not believe this is the case.
And regarding dealing with Bryce’s death, both Chuck and Sarah, I refer you to the wonderful “Chuck Vs. The Color blue”, a much better description of a S3 opener than the supposed “Pink Slip”, which takes place right after S2 Final moments, and describes the best way they both handle the traumatic event.
I forgot to supply the link, sorry
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5044307/1/
You didn’t think Sarah gave enough of a reaction in “Best Friend”?!? I had tears running down my face out of empathy for her pain and grief when she thought he’d been blown up in the Nerd Herder.
I thought Yvonne sold it well. I’m just not a big fan of the silent treatment acting approach(it’s a French acting Milieu),I think it is sometimes(not in Yvonne’s case though) used to blur limited vocal and facial abilities, thus rendering the fear of ‘over acting’ to be
a performance of ‘under acting’…and there is nothing I hate more in acting that under-acting(or exaggerated Minimalism).
Alex
Taking spoiler comments on this and other websites at face value, S3 will have several interesting themes play out during the course of the thirteen episode arc. Just a few of these themes could be:
– Chuck emerging as the superhero he was always meant to be
– Chuck/Sarah separated by their circumstances (which they may accept for a time)
– Sarah growing more as a person
– Dr. WoodCombe realising Chucks life is not easy and not for him
The mid-season mini arcs which have been identified will probably pull the Chuck/Sarah relationship further apart on the surface but, like Sarah & Bryce, the under-current between the two will likely remain strong. Coming into the end of the series (a show such as `Chuck` which has already barely survived the bubble, is unlikely to survive it again) my hope is that the creatives will relent and allow Chuck/Sarah to finally realise that the government / CIA / NSA need them more than they need the government – Orion managed to hide from everyone for 12 plus years so you dont think he could help Chuck/Sarah do the same? And why haven’t they had this thought themselves?
Evidence (read: spoilers) suggests that Chuck/Sarah will be separated during most of S3, even more so than in S2 as they may not even maintain their cover relationship. And while Fedak has mentioned an `emotional and traumatic` event which is `good` (and assuming that that is in relation to Chuck/Sarah), could it be a situation in the final episode where we see Chuck (and it would have to be Chuck for emotional release reasons) critically harmed / wounded causing Sarahs remaining mental barriers to finally give way. The premise being, if you realise that you’ve been giving up something you want for some future `tomorrow` but then realise that that future may never eventuate (one or both of you dying), why would you deny yourselves the happiness you could have today? Especially when the powers that be would simply have to accept the new reality or risk loosing two very important assets (note bit regards Orion above). Afterall, the intelligence community already makes use of independent contractors? Working for the good guys, the bad guys and the corporations. And Casey could be their NSA contact / handler. And it doesn’t exclude the possibility of one of them (Ok, Chuck) slowly going over to the dark side.
So it could be that both point and counter-point are presented during S3, we could well see Chuck/Sarah close their relationship give their new found situation but finally decide that they are better off together than apart.
Your premise for S3 doesn’t sound too good, but unfortunately plausible.
I’ll have to watch before I decide finally whether to stick to it or let it
die on its own.
While that sounds plausible, I prefer more Chara to less. If it turns into a whole season of them seperate from each other and there is little to no romance between them, I might have to put this show on the backburner and revisit it during the finale.
I expect Chris to deleiver what he said he would deliver. That would be Chara is the heart of the show and we love Chuck and Sarah and there will be romance this season. Link your season sounds like something I wouldn’t be very interested in seeing. I would have to pass on that.
Also if the season plays out like that, I would hardly call it the greatest season ever of Chuck. That is like calling American Idol the greatest season ever with a bunch of Sanjayas on.
I think Link also doesn’t want to see this kind of show, he is just portraying his vision of S3 as per the spoilers we have been witnessing for the last weeks, and if we take them as face value, his premise sounds, unfortunately realistic…as bad as it is.
If the spoilers are delivered just for the purpose of maintaining buzz( and
a stupid way of that, irritating the fan base, mind you) and the reality is
reversed and surprisingly better, than we will be relieved.
Myself, I suspect that the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Thank you Alex.
I obviously didnt make it that clear that this is not a premise I would like to watch either.
It has been the spoilers released to date that have caused a great deal of commentary and that can only be good for the show… afterall, and to paraphrase, any forum discussions are good forum discussions and keep the interest level in the show up. It has however also been interesting to see a toning down of those same spoilers and re-interpretation even since this very thread went live.
I too hope for a better S3 than mentioned above. My fear is that season based development does not seem to have changed much in the US over the last decade. Canada, now thats a different story.
I’m crusing on the same “ship” (no pun intended) with Alex & Link. I’m HOPING for a Season 3 that will surprise those of us who are a tad nervous based on what the spoilers have indicated (in part).
And I’m having somewhat of a “conversion” 😉 – or maybe it’s just wishful thinking – or being in denial – call it whatever you prefer – but I’m thinking that the writers SERIOUSLY have something up their sleeves other than what is being intimated by the angst tag lines in the spoilers.
To have Chuck and Sarah have actual/real/heartfelt “romantic interests” for other people would be such a step backward and I don’t think that’s where the writers want to go. Soooooo…… How’s this for a possibility – and for this I present a hypothetical (OBVIOUSLY a hypothetical in MY case). Let’s say I’m married and MADLY in love with my wife. She’s “the one” for me. But that DOESN’T mean that I COULDN’T POSSIBLY have some “small” feelings for someone else. (Hold on, I’m not finished).
Let’s be honest. A man can be married, love his wife more than anyone/anything else, be faithful, committed, etc., etc., and still feel perhaps a little bit of an attraction to someone else. (and just so no one thinks I’m a chauvinist, let’s say this can work in the case of the WOMAN, too).
But – and this is a “BIG” but [:)], the person realizes who is the love of their life and they know that they have to put those “feelings” for “someone else” aside, much less NEVER act on them. Am I making sense here, or am I going to possibly be considered to not know what I’m talking about because of the collar?
I think people in “committed relationships” can be completely faithful to each other and still (occasionally) “feel something” for someone else. Again – it’s not “cheating,” it DOESN’T mean they “love” that person – it’s only being “human.” That’s why fidelity is HARD WORK – but not only is it RIGHT, it’s WORTH ALL THE EFFORT THAT GOES INTO IT!!
It’s the same with me. I might “feel an attraction” to the check out lady at the store [remember again – this is HYPOTHETICAL – I don’t want the check out ladies at the grocery looking at me funny ;)], but I remain faithful to the committment I made when I was ordained. I hope this makes sense.
That’s what I think/hope is the kind of thing that the angst-containing tag lines are referring to re: S3. Could Chuck possible “feel a little something” for Hannah for one reason or another. Sure, but it’s SARAH, he loves and it’s SARAH who is the one to whom he’s committed. Could Sarah have the same kind of “feelings” for “Shaw?” Sure, but again – she doesn’t love him and she’s committed to Chuck. {NOW TO HAVE CHUCK OR SARAH ACTUALLY GET DEEPLY INVOLVED WITH ANOTHER PERSON IS SOMETHING ELSE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT – AND “THAT” I CAN’T [HOPE NOT TO] SEE HAPPENING in S3}.
Anyway, that’s my hopeful, optimistic play/take on what’s being fed to us in the spoilers in regard to S3. Bottom line, I’m on board to watch S3, eat my Subway footlongs, and hopefully have a great time in the process. I’ll let the SEASON – not the spoilers – speak for itself. If there’s an occasional “clunker” episode, so be it. Season 2 had a clunker or two and we all still stuck with it.
So, as they say, the proof will be in the pudding – and that pudding will be served starting in March. I can’t “eat” spoilers. I can, however, “devour,” “digest” and either enjoy or barf up EPISODES. We’ll see what happens. For now, I’ll remain optimistic, because truthfully, being pessimistic – even if there is some cause for it based on the spoilers/teasers – is tiring me out – and there’s STILL almost six months to go!! If I keep being pessimistic, by March I’ll be so tired out that I’ll be in a coma!
Here’s hoping Season 3 will ROCK – and that it WON’T be the last for CHUCK!!
Keep on Chuckin’ all you Chuckaholics. And PEACE!!
[And sorry I’m so loooooong winded again. I’m actually a person of few words – until you get me started on the subject of CHUCK!] 😉
Rick does kissing these other people count as being faithful to each other.
I just think the whole idea of love iterests is riduculous. When I think of season 3 even imaging best case scenario where Sarah is all fan girl over shaw like she was Cole then I will have to avoid the show for a greater portion of the season.
I am not as loyal as you. If you don’t eat your meat how can you have any pudding. If I don’t get my chara meat why should I digest this sour pudding they are feeding me.
S3 for me marks the time this show needs to put up or shut up. It looks like they are going with angst and no Chara for a greater part of S3. Epic fail. I will buy a Sub but if the shows fails to deleiver they will not be getting any more subs or support from me.
I will watch the season and continue to support the show, but if I ever have to watch a Beefcake or Jill like episode again I will change the station and Ebay my S1 Bluray. Because at that point this show would be dead to me.
Perhaps this theory of mine will help some Charah fans out there. Everyone is assuming that the love interest are either words to rile up the fans or that Chuck and Sarah will actually call it quits and get evolved with others. But there is another explanation which hasn’t been explored or at least I haven’t seen it discussed. Perhaps they break up in order to stay together. General Beckman was given a pretty lame excuse for Sarah going awol in the Colonel, but she had no reason to challenge it, because Operation Bartowski was over. The intersect was out of Chuck’s head. Casey was going back to command his old Special Forces unit. And Beckman also had plans for Sarah that was revealed in The Ring. Well now guess what Chuck has the new and improved intersect in his head and the Fulcrum threat is insignificant compared to the threat that the Ring represents. Do you think as seriously as Beckman takes her job that she is simply not going to worry about Chuck and Sarah’s relationship and the impact it could have on future missions? Chuck and Sarah may very well have to break up their fake relationship in order to stay together. General Beckman has the power and motivation and would not hesitate to separate Chuck and Sarah and make sure that they would never see each other again regardless as to whether Sarah quits or not as an agent. How many times has she threatened to take Chuck underground? Their breakup could be the only thing that saves Chuck and Sarah. The question is would General Beckman be satisfied with them simply broken up or would she test them? Would she send spies in to test their breakup? How will Chuck and Sarah react to a new potential love interest for themselves and better yet how will they react to seeing the other involved with someone else. A challenging and heart wrenching path to be sure.
And now lets look at Shaw and Hannah. If you were profiling Sarah’s past love life in order to bring in someone to test her the only one we know about is Bryce. Cole doesn’t count in the least. Enters Shaw a super spy just like Bryce and doesn’t he look just a little bit like Bryce? In fact he looks a lot like Bryce? And then there is Hannah. Profiling Chuck past love interest of Lou and Jill in order to bring in someone to test him doesn’t it make sense to have someone looking like Hannah? To top that if you look at the spoilers regarding how they first meet, she had a high paying job and now will at the work Buy More. She is out of a job and yet flying briefly to France and back. Hello can you say set up? And it also is safe to assume Chuck is not flying to France to fix a computer as part of the Nerd Herd, so it’s obviously a spy mission. In my opinion their meeting is arranged and not by coincidence. There should be a lot of alarm bells going off when reading the spoilers on Hannah.
And now let’s take a look at the whole Kryptonite/Spinach take on Chuck’s 2.0 ability. Could we be seeing things slightly differently then actually what will occur? If Chuck and Sarah break up and have to date others it will have a significant impact on the Kryptonite aspect of his powers. Is it possible that Beckman and Shaw toward the end of the season will come to the realization that Chuck and Sarah need to be together in order for his abilities to work properly with the Spinach aspect? Thanks! I hope this helps and generates more ideas. Halley Smith (Charah673)
Haley that is a great point and it seems very plausible. However as a fan I want Chara. So if you can make a Chara romance out of that this could work.
How about. Hannah and Shaw are brought in to test Chuck and Sarah but Chuck and Sarah are on to them. Beckman thinks they are broken up but in reality they are not on ice but they try to sneak little moments with each other. So Shaw/ Hannah / Chuck and Sarah are playing each other. I am okay with that. I just don’t want to see them hook up with the other party. Maybe they just toy with them until it is time. This would certainly make it a complicated interesting love trapezoid.
But if this a season of anguish about them being split apart and having to see other people that is too much drama for me. Chara have to be in this together or it doesn’t work for me.
Its called “mind cheating.” lol
Chuckme2 Yes, that is what I mean they will be on to Beckman from the beginning. Perhaps Casey will realize it and come up with a plan to warn them and protect Team Bartowski? And yes they will be in a sense playing Shaw and Hannah, but they will have to make it believable. Their being together in the future would depend on it they will have to make their relationships with Hannah and Shaw look real while not betraying each other in the process. Talk about walking on a minefield. I am sure they could add moments here and there to show the continues chemistry between Chuck and Sarah. I don’t think they could hide being secretly involved or fooling around to well there. Especially with all the surveillance. But who knows? All I know is this is a better theory then just assuming that they will end their relationship, putting their relationship on ice and dating others because they don’t see a future together anymore.
@sillystring. Thanks for your reply – it made me laugh (in a good way). Believe me, I’m not wild about the “love interests” angle, either. I’m just getting the feeling that it’s NOT what we’re being led to believe it’s going to be. If it turns out being what we most fear, then I, like you will be disappointed. But my sense of HOPE tells me that it’s going to be something different.
And in answer to your question about the kissing and if that would throw a wrench in the Chuck/Sarah fidelity issue, I guess my answer is to say it would depend on the kiss. For example, I harmless peck on the cheek from Chuck to Hannah to basically say, “you’re a great gal, but I’m in love with someone else,” wouldn’t be infidelity. A full blown “you know what kind of kiss,” now that’s another story.
I just am starting to feel in my gut (and call it wishful thinking if you want) that Chuck and Sarah aren’t going to “go overboard” sniffing out other love interests. Some may cross their paths, and they’ll have to deal with them in the “right” way. But I think their fidelity to each other at this point will win the day and that they’ll deal with these things appropriately.
Me think’s there will be more plot twists than what we expect, and less the rehash of the S1 and S2 formula that some/many of us fear will be repeated. So I’ll stick with my “hope,” until I’m given reason to lose it.
Did anyone happen to see the 25 Best Will They/Wont They couples list at EW.com.
http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20302134_20304425_8,00.html
This is what EW.com has to say about Chuck and Sarah
“CHUCK BARTOWSKI (ZACHARY LEVI) AND SARAH WALKER (YVONNE STRAHOVSKI)
Chuck, 2007-present)
Josh Schwartz and co. brought the romantic tension between the Nerd Herder-turned-pseudo-spy and his CIA handler to a boil in season 2. They were (fake) married on a suburban mission, survived respective sexual distractions (his evil ex, Jill; a beefcake British spy), and nearly hooked up while on the lam. But Chuck’s uploading the new Intersect in the season finale makes their future…a little complicated. He’s still government property; she’s still got a job to do. Classic romantic obstacle!
Hit it or quit it? Duh, they’re perfect for each other! Hit it, guys!”
I guess EW.com has some shippers as well.
Rock on, EW.com!!!
Hey Rick, what do you think about my theory that I posted yesterday? Anyone else want to poke holes at it? Is Chuck and Sarah’s relationship really going on Ice or simply on Ice as seen by General Beckman? Are the love interests simply tests engineered by Beckman? Will Casey secretly help Sarah and Chuck have a hidden relationship? If it is a hidden relationship and all the other characters thinks that they are not involved then technically they aren’t really together for Season 3. Yvonne Strahovski in a interview said that Season 3 would be epic. If my theory pans out it would indeed be epic!! Ryan Partlin said in one interview something to the effect of giving the fans what they want, but flipping it around or flipping it on its head. Chuck and Sarah switching from maintaining a fake relationship while not having a real one, to having a real secret relationship while maintaining a breakup or relationship on ice would also fit his statement.
Halley – I’m actually “with ya” on that theory. They’ve already done the “fake relationship” thing while not having a REAL relationship. So WHY NOT a “fake NON-relationship” while secretly having the REAL one! This way you avoid the “been there, done that” scenario of S1 and S2 while opening up a whole different arena for great storytelling. YOU, young lady, may just be onto something!! And I hope you are!!! 🙂
Rick, LOL, for the record I am a 44 Y/O Male, named after Halley’s Comet. Pronounced like Hal-Lee or Valley take off the V and put on a H.
Glad you agree! Let’s hope that I am 100 percent accurate on the theory that would be so cool to accurately predict what happens and what a great season it would mean for Chuck and Sarah!
Well, I’m a 45 year old male – so maybe that’s why we seem to “agree” on things!! 😉 One question, what’s Y/O mean??
Can we switch for a moment from mythology to business? It seems to me that we might have to accept that the Chuck show as we knew/loved it ENDED with Chuck vs. the Colonel. For BUSINESS reasons, Chuck 2.0 (for lack of a better term) began with Chuck vs. the Ring. With a return in March, it seems like NBC’s mandate is: Treat the show as if it is new because that is how we’re looking at it.
My point being that there may not actually be a lot of references back to the first 34 episodes in season 3. Chuck 2.0, by network demand, may essentially be a NEW show that is about a nerd who CHOSE to put a supercomputer in his head, needs to know how to use it–and WANTS to be a cool secret agent named Charles Carmichael. This nerd lives with his chidhood friend, has two govt. spooks to train him. That would mean a reset/restart for Chuck and Sarah, too. Almost as if the first 34 episodes never happened. Worst case, we may have to start from scratch with Chuck and Sarah because NBC is thinking of selling this show as NEW and assumes most of the viewers have NOT seen the first two seasons of Chuck.
As I say, we fans may have to live with the fact that Season 3 of Chuck is actually Season 1 of a new show that also just happens to be called Chuck.
So for my own peace of mind, I am going to think that the Chuck show ended with Chuck and Sarah going to Awesome and Ellie’s Rehersal dinner, then finally became a couple because everything was “real.”
Then I’m coming to Season 3 fresh because, I think, for business reasons, the creators have been asked to come to the show fresh. That would also explain all the new characters being introduced.
Interesting. I DO think they are looking at S3 as somewhat of a “RE-LAUNCH.” In a way, it’s the final shot for this show to either sink or swim. I don’t think ratings of 6-7 million fans per episode will be enough to give the NBC execs enough reason to give “CHUCK” (or whatever you might want to call it now) a fourth season – unless, of course, Subway basically pours a TON of $$ behind it and it costs NBC virtually nothing.
A “re-launch” isn’t a bad idea. They’ve tried other things and the audience hasn’t seemed to grow much beyond the loyal fan base. Most people I talk to – who ARE TV watchers – still don’t know what I’m talking about when I mention CHUCK. (Because most are watching DWTS, HOUSE, or the CBS comedies).
So, I think this season is make or break time. Either Chuck “breaks through” and does at least a little better in the ratings, or it may be the last season. BUMMER!! Let’s hope that what the creators/writers have in store WILL work – and that NBC promotes the show (taking a lesson from Virgin 1’s promos might help) – and it’s key actors and actresses (on the 10 or so different talk shows that NBC has under it’s belt) – in a way that will contribute to its success!! 🙂
TBH Rick, I’m not sure the Chuck fan base wants to see a new show which(according to liztizzy)undermines the basic CHUCK values, concept and qualities, and if NBC’s hopes lies in the chances that this change will bring new fans…then good luck to them, I’m still hoping to see a new season of CHUCK, if it’s a different show, there are other better options than that: 24 , Lost, and Comedy re-runs.
Alex. I don’t mean “new show” in the literal sense. I’m still a fan of CHUCK and that’s the show I will enjoy until it dies. I don’t want any dramatic changes that will alter what we’ve been mostly (with the exception of a certain word which will go unmentioned) enjoying for the past two seasons. All I was basically trying to say was that if they are going to attempt to re-market the show by doing some re-tooling, I have no problems with that.
I don’t want CHUCK to lose any of the great things that make it what it is – but for some reason (and I know there are many, including the brutal time slot) this great show which even many TV critics have hailed as excellent – has not caught on.
This may sound like picking at nits or splitting hairs, but a show marketed as (A)” a computer nerd gets government secrets downloaded into his head” – can still be the same show as (B)”an everyday guy becomes a hero by…..” All I’m saying is that if they are going to try to market/promote the show as (B), I think it will have a wider appeal than does (A) – and yet still have it be the same show. For some people, when they hear about CHUCK as a show about a “computer nerd,” it’s instant turnoff. Sad, but true.
(Just a silly side note, but that is why I kept harping on Chuck’s awful nerd-style ‘dos in S1 & S2 – the chullet, the helmet, etc., etc. A loooong while back there was an extensive thread – I think it was on this site – about the need for an update to the Chuck ‘do. Because in reality, Chuck is NOT a nerd – he’s the “everyman” the creators are telling us they want to tell a story about – the “everyman” hero. Yet so much of the previuos marketing/promotion [to the extent that it existed at all] was “computer nerd” oriented. They even made Chuck look the part of the nerd with the nerdie ‘dos.)
Maybe it’s too late in the game to try to “re-market” the show. Maybe not. I’m not saying to reinvent the show – that’s not needed. But some subtle nuiancing/changes in terms of promotion, marketing, etc. couldn’t hurt in terms of trying to attract a wider audience. That was the point I was trying to make (perhaps not so well) in my reponse to liztizzy.
Oh, I totally agree with the marketing, how is that possible that Josh’s network , holds two of the most popular talk show and neither Zach or Yvonne are on any of them ? not to mention the fact the new Leno platform is another great way for Chuck leading couple to pump the show’s name, or Zach hosting the SNL…I mean, there are tons of ideas, it amazing none of them got made, and instead of plugging the show like they should the choose to flood us with spoilers…to keep the buzz…come on. that’s not good promotion.
Regarding re-tooling the show, it should be careful and not precarious otherwise it might cause more harm than good.
and I think liztizzy meant his post in a more verbal way than you did, Rick.
have a good evening sir.
I’m right with you on the talk show and SNL thing. I’m still holding out hope that there will be more of a blitz of Chuck stars appearing on these shows closer to the time of the premiere.
Another thing I think would be a GREAT idea, especially for the MANY die-hard fans who live no where near California and don’t go to Comic-Con, etc. If we wind up with only 13 episodes, they’ll “wrap” in plenty of time for the season premiere. How about a “Subway tour” with Zach/Yvonne/Adam, etc. appearing at different Subways – perhaps in the “downtowns” of major cities like Chicago, New York, and other major media markets. Do that in conjunction with the talk show appearnaces and I think that would help spread the word. I’ll keep my fingers crossed.
And if we all need some mental barriers to accept my above theory, how about this: We call the first 34 episodes we’ve seen “Chuck.” And everything from Chuck vs. The Ring on becomes “Charles Carmichael, Secret Agent”
Interesting point…then let’s hope that Charles Carmichael, Secret Agent has a second season too. 😀
Rick, Y/O = Year(s) Old. Sorry it is a abbreviation used in Emergency Service News Pages, which might not be recognized by some. And yes that is probably why we agree so much of the time.
Liztizzy, if they do a very hard reset as you suggest they will be wasting Chuck’s biggest asset (pardon the pun). The romantic chemistry between Chuck and Sarah is so strong that many think that Zac and Yvonne are romantically involved, which they are not. With these two guest stars coming in to be romantic interests for Chuck and Sarah, and one being on for at least 6 episodes possible more and this is essential season 1 of a new show as you suggest there would be no room in the season for any chemistry between Chuck and Sarah. Why would NBC, Chris Fedak or Josh Schwartz ever throw away their best asset? For marketing purposes to grab the most amount of viewers and especially to boost ratings they need to pull out all the stops. The show may survive an episode or two without the Chuck and Sarah dynamic, but without it there will not likely to be a Season 4 and the ratings would plummet during Season 3. While we all can nitpick about things there is no question that Josh Schwartz and Chris Fedak have delivered two fantastic Seasons of Chuck. I don’t believe that they will let us down for Season 3. If they do as you suggest there are 2 things that come to mind. First the nerd gets the girl will be the equivalent of the boy that cried wolf and fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! I do value your opinion. As I said in a recent email what a boring world this would be if everyone thought and did everything the same way. The differences are what makes things much more meaningful and worthwhile. We will all know for sure in March and April as to how things play out. I would prefer to stay positive and upbeat as to the future of Chuck especially when my calm center is in control. And yes I do also need to practice what I preach as I too have certainly had my moments when I have quickly reacted unpleasantly to spoiler news. Keep the faith everybody! Peace!!
Halley. I don’t think they are going to jettison the Chuck and Sarah dynamic. For many fans (maybe even most, although I have not hard evidence) that is the primary driving force of the show (at least imho). Will TPTB still play around with it – I would say “Yes” in some way (although perhaps not in the way that we are being led to believe by the spoilers). Bottom line, without the Chuck/Sarah dynamic the show isn’t “Chuck.” Period. 🙂
Junping back to the comment that Chuck and Sarah will have an emotional crisis at ComicCon, I think the potential rivals will be the spark for this crisis. Sarah I believe wants her life to move in a different direction (being part of a family, having a family). She has so little permanence in her life she gets involved with people she works with. Season 1 had her become part of a fake family (Chuck, Elle & Awesome, and even Morgan). Season 2 has her become emotionally attached to that family (Ok not Morgan so much) but she was in a wedding. She can’t do that in other assignments.
On one level Chuck and Sarah are attracted to each other because they both have lost their families (Chuck’s mom and dad, Sarah’s father, mother, sister). But Chuck has realized its not his fault. He’s farther down the healing process and this strength attracts Sarah. In him she sees the chance to have a normal life. Cole offered her a choice to jet off again, but she chose to stay because she realizes Chuck can give her what she really wants. Later she chooses him over Bryce and the spy’s life and she almost tells him what she really wants. But now he’s becoming the hero. He’s gaining confidence in his abilities outside of the Intersect. He’s going to embrace being more than just an asset and become a spy.
But if he does they won’t be able to have that cute little house in the cul-de-sac. It will be a spy’s life for them both and she will have to tell him and he will have to decide can he give this new hero life up for her.
I do think they should continue to fake the relationship but not fake it so much. My wife and I suffered through several years of this tension from the X-Files, but I will gladly suffer through it again.
A few facts:
– Yvonne said in an interview that Sarah will not be pleased to find that Chauck has downloaded the intersect 2.0
– Zach said that they will put their relation on ice. 🙁
– K. Kreuk will be apearing in the third episode and B. Routh in the fourth.
Maybe Josh Schwartz will not make the same mistake as he did with The O.C ( killing Marisa ) and Chuck and Sarah will be a real couple this season. I’m affraid he will do something stupid and we will end up like the Gossip Girl ( pairing Dan with Georgina? and Vanessa with the new kid? WT… )
On another note: i saw the ratings for 21.09.2009 and it’s not looking good fon NBC but maybe it will be good for Chuck.
Heroes had only 6.3 milion people watching it ( just by watching the first 2 episodes you can tell that it will be whorse than season 3 ) and Jay Leno only 5.8. 🙁
If Chuck will beat that maybe will see a fourth season. 🙂
I hope HEROS and JAY LENO (ESPECIALLY JAY LENO) FAIL!!! That means another season of Chuck. WOOHOO Also means I won’t be in a straight jacket because I was left hanging about would happen to our beloved characters from CHUCK in future seasons.
Based on the shows I have seen on NBC, I have a feeling we will see Chuck back real soon.
One interesting thing about those Heroes ratings, isn’t that close to what Chuck was averaging in S2?
I wonder what there ratings will be like in a few weeks.
Maybe NBC will realize that Chuck did a pretty good job of holding its own in a very tough time slot.
Obviously this is to late now but I have a few wishes for season 3. Some of them might seam off topic though but they all needs to belong to the past and part of the Charah moving forward process.
– No more on the side love relationship:
Chuck and Sarah have known each other and moved forward and backwards in their relationship for 2-3 years when S3 starts. We all assume both characters know their feelings are answered by now. Either that or they are stupid. If some one can come in and break that in a few days, weeks or even months the whole foundation of Charah must be very weak. The danger here is if the writers stubbornly add in love geometrics the viewers could start to dislike Chuck and/or Sarah. It’s ok if there are set backs and they are jealousy because off the art of missions and such but bring in a third part that one of them behind the back of the other give-in-to/ fall-for is a big mistake imo.
-No more stupid Chuck:
Good examples are when Chuck throws his GPS watch in a cup of coffee just to prevent CIA/NSA from knowing that Lou is a meat smuggler or when he turns off the listening device in Jill’s hotel room. Leave this kind of behaviors to Morgan and the Jeffster pair. It’s ok when Chuck only acting by his heart instead of the government orders and thereby makes mistakes but don’t make him stupid. Make Chuck more grown up and more of a hero than he has been in S1 and S2. I think this is what they will do in S3.
-Sarah
Open her up more in season 3 and don’t let Chuck interrupt her all the time. Very annoying imo. Also it was a plot mistake when Sarah was naïve enough to believe that Chuck with an intersect in his brain could go back to his normal life when they had a new up and running. They also need to make her reject incoming seductions from other men. Cole is a good example here. She totally ignored Chuck and didn’t trust him at all during these episodes. He was with them for about three days and almost manages to get her. If you look at it again you can see that she really consider his offers. My impression is that he would only need one more day to break Charah up even if it obviously for Sarah was only for a one night stand. Very heartbreaking and it draw a shadow over everything else like humor, action, etc.
Despite this I love this Show but it could easily go downhill. If we get too disappointed in S3 it could also destroy S1 and S2 when knowing what soap it will end up in.
hehe i think it owns! pwonage post! thanks